Poll Should car maker executives be fired?

Should car maker executives be fired?

  • Yes

    Votes: 15 88.2%
  • No

    Votes: 2 11.8%

  • Total voters
    17
I work for Delphi, which supplies the big 3 steering parts. Working for Delphi for 2 years now and all i have seen in the automakers is the CEO's and higher ups giving themselves bonuses and trips and raising there salary, but then turning around and asking for more money. If you fire the CEO another person waiting the money will move in.
 
Yes I think the "Big Three" execs should be fired. Not that their replacements will be much (if any) better, but no-one performs their best if they feel they are immune to the consequences of their mistakes.

I feel there definitely is a "class" difference between high level execs, and all others. If a regular worker gets fired for cause, he may likely loose his pension, and isn't eligible for unemployment compensation. If a high level exec gets fired, well they rarely get fired at all, just "allowed" to resign. No matter how badly they perform, they get a multi-million dollar severence package (AKA golden parachute) and can still collect huge amounts of unemployment comp. And another major company will hire them up in a heartbeat anyway, since they are one of the "club". 50 years ago, when the U.S. was at the height of it's industry, the op execs made 10 to 20 times what the average worker did. Now they make hundreds, even thousands of times as much as the average employee. Even if they break laws (think IBM's Fiorello and her illegal wiretaps and surveilance) they rarely are charged for their crime. The Arthur Anderson fiasco was the exception, not the rule. Financial fraud is common, and even when detected nothing much is done about it.

As for the Auto makers, they did most of this to themselves. They completely failed to foresee market changes and spent huge amounts of money designing and building massive, gas guzzling SUV's. The UAW is also partly to blame. When you include all the benefits and pensions, a UAW worker costs the company about $75,000 per year. The non-UAW workers emplyed by the Japanese companies who have plants in the US cost about $45,000.

Another problem is the way US automakers handle service. For example, about 10 years ago I was driving a 87 Mercury Cougar. One day when I pushed in the clutch pedal, I felt a snap, and the pedal went to the floor and stayed there. When I looked, I was happy to see that the part that failed was an interlink cable, a steel cable about three inches long with a lead ball at each end that went between the main clutch cable and the lever on the trans. It was designed to fail before the main cable did, and was accessable and easy to replace. I thought things would go smoothly until I went to the parts store. That's when I found out that these interlink cables were designed to be specific to one particular model of car, with one particular drivetrain. Since it's deliberatly not a "one size fits all" part, it's only available at the Dealer. Since each model/drivetrain combo has a different lenght cable (and no good reason for that except to exclude third party manufacturers) they didn't even keep them in stock. That short peice of steel cable with lead balls on each end took five days to come in, required a special wrench to install, and cost $25. That experience didn't leave me feeling very happy with Ford/Mercury. On the other hand, I once owned a Toyota Corolla which I bought with over 200k miles on it. About 6 months and 120k more miles later the points wore out. The small garage I went to (this was in a town of about 500 people) said the points were extremely common, had them in stock, and they cost $12. I installed them myself in a parking lot in about five minutes with a needle nose pliers and a swiss army knife.

The Big Three don't offer any electric or hybrid vehicles to the general public. Chevy will have an electric (the Volt) in a year or to, but ot's only good for about 85 miles on a charge. Ther are a couple small companies that already offer a car with twice the range.I was listening to National Public Radio the other day, and the guest propposed that we give some of the "bailout" money to these smaller companies so they can increase production and bring the costs down.

The "Big Three" simply refuse to get with the times and insist on selling what they want to make instead of what the consumers want. GM used to have an electric car called the EV-1. The wouldn't sell them, only leased them to a few people in California. When the leases came up, GM refused to renew them, took the cars back, and crushed all but two. Those two remain in GM's museums, but have had the drivetrain stripped out. They claimed that "people didn't like Electric cars" but nearly everyone who had leased one wanted to keep it. They even staged protests and laid in the driveway of the lot where the cars were being stored before they got crushed. Sounds to me like they liked thos cars just fine, but GM just didn't want to sell electrics since they have far fewer parts that need to be replaced on a regular basis. They simply didn't want to give up any of the replacement part sales that make them and their dealers so much profit. There's a documentary on that called "Who Killed the Electric Car" which is well worth seeing.
 
And it seems the purpose of this thread is to stir up some sort of class resentment, painting the auto execs as a class diferent from all the rest of us. I wonder if any corporate execs are Orbiter fans and what they think.

There is no resentment. I have not worked for car industry.

It is not about classes, but about subsidizing incompetence with taxpayers money.

The two classes seem to be defined by those whose incompetence is subsidized and those who just get fired without warning.

In that case, government would be protecting some individuals, and the rest would be unprotected. That would mean that the most capitalist regime won't let rules of capitalism to work for a certain group of people.

If you keep the same people, you get the same results.
 
There is no resentment. That is a great emotional argument to discredit this thread.

Just like this great emotional thread exists to discredit managers - even those who have done everything right.
 
Just like this great emotional thread exists to discredit managers - even those who have done everything right.

Now that's interesting. A leftist defending managers.
It is evident they underperformed, for they need the bailout.
It looks like there are big believers in repentence and forgiveness.
But there is no big believer in repentence and forgiveness in a company when you cause an insignificant $1000 loss to your company, unless you pay for it.

When Hubble Space Telescope failed, you could see NASA project managers sweating, as probably their careers would be over. But it looks carmaker executives belong to a different species of citizen. So there are first class managers and second class managers.

And notice that HST failure is not comparable with the damage to car industry.

Innovative companies like Tesla Motors, Zero Pollution Motors - Air Car can replace them, its not the end of the world. Let them fail and other companies well buy up their assets and new jobs shall be made
 
Now that's interesting. A leftist defending managers.

Again, a wrong assumption by you. I am no leftist, even if I am from Europe. And I am also not defending managers in general - i just defend those, who have not committed any errors in the past and now suffer from the decisions of other managers and politicians (which can be considered political managers).
 
There is no resentment. I have not worked for car industry.

It is not about classes, but about subsidizing incompetence with taxpayers money.

The two classes seem to be defined by those whose incompetence is subsidized and those who just get fired without warning.

In that case, government would be protecting some individuals, and the rest would be unprotected. That would mean that the most capitalist regime won't let rules of capitalism to work for a certain group of people.

If you keep the same people, you get the same results.

Once again this has nothing to do with the nuts and bolts of the Auto Industry.:(
 
Again, a wrong assumption by you. I am no leftist, even if I am from Europe. And I am also not defending managers in general - i just defend those, who have not committed any errors in the past and now suffer from the decisions of other managers and politicians (which can be considered political managers).

I recall you once said that your vision could be somehow to the left.
Perhaps, left wing... with ailerons and flaps...:lol:

Are you defending car maker executives btw? :P
 
I recall you once said that your vision could be somehow to the left.

Yes, I am belonging politically more into the social-democratic spectrum, which is about the left-center of the political spectrum. But that is not leftist - leftists are socialists.

Are you defending car maker executives?

If they get unjust treatment, I will. Most managers who made the walk to Canossa...Washington last week will sure not deserve any defense, not from me or anybody else.

And as far as I have heard, the politicians in the USA agree that their heads are the price for any large help package to prevent a complete collapse of the US car industry in the next year.

Which is a good idea... the damage caused by this would be far worse as what is already happening. One collapse in 2 years would be better absorbed by the economy, but all big companies in one year would cause shock-waves from which the USA will not recover in decades.
 
If they get unjust treatment, I will. Most managers who made the walk to Canossa...Washington last week will sure not deserve any defense, not from me or anybody else.

And as far as I have heard, the politicians in the USA agree that their heads are the price for any large help package to prevent a complete collapse of the US car industry in the next year.

Which is a good idea... the damage caused by this would be far worse as what is already happening. One collapse in 2 years would be better absorbed by the economy, but all big companies in one year would cause shock-waves from which the USA will not recover in decades.

...which is exactly the point of this thread.

If their heads become the price, then if you do not do your job, you are fired and capitalism goes on. Else, you have 2 sets of rules, one for normal people (including managers like the ones form NASA) and those executives who would become an exception to capitalism in the most capitalist country.

I started to question how capitalist is US capitalism after Argentine president questioned the bailout intervention at UN. In Latin America we suffered with Programas de Ajuste Estructural (PAE I, II and III) from World Bank and IMF capitalist economists which did exactly the opposite of what is being done in US.

What PAEs did in a time of high government deficit and high debt was:

-To restrict and reduce liquidity when it was already limited.
-No socialist bailouts (known as "Estado benefactor") for anyone.
-No government intervention even if it jeopardized employment and shrink the market.
-Open markets (increased trade deficit, company acquisitions and merges).
-No mercy towards us, efficiency (and unemployment) must prevail...
-No root development model (we copied that model from Francisco Franco, who took Spain out of economic misery)

I find it very hypocritical to apply a formula to us and then the exact opposite for US. The excuse of IMF and World Bank was that there was "not enough market discipline". In an environment where no government intervention is allowed, who should impose "discipline"?
 
Why are managers at NASA any different from any other type of manager?
 
Why are managers at NASA any different from any other type of manager?

That is exactly the same question I ask.

Why should there be difference between HST NASA managers who had to sweat before press, and car maker executives who get a huge bailout as reward?
 
Why should there be difference between HST NASA managers who had to sweat before press, and car maker executives who get a huge bailout as reward?

Is the bail-out a reward for the managers? Do they get the money?
 
That is exactly the same question I ask.

Why should there be difference between HST NASA managers who had to sweat before press, and car maker executives who get a huge bailout as reward?

Because the HST manager works for the government and is thus obligated to let the public know how their money is used. Car execs are not funded by the government, and are under no similar obligation.
 
Is the bail-out a reward for the managers? Do they get the money?

No, but they might have a chance not have one of the biggest bankruptcies in US history in their resume. That is a reward in a way, and adds some comfort to them, unlike HST managers. It is an incentive to inefficiency.

Because the HST manager works for the government and is thus obligated to let the public know how their money is used. Car execs are not funded by the government, and are under no similar obligation.

If bailout comes, they will.
 
No, but they might have a chance not have one of the biggest bankruptcies in US history in their resume.

No, they instead have the bail-out in their resumes, which means: Tax payers money saved the company from their errors. Even if they get the bail-out, their resumes are already ruined.

Which will sure not stop them from finding a job... but no public one ever. They lost their own credibility.
 
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