Nasa delays Moons mission

[Ark]

No, getting him back is easy. Getting him back alive, on the other hand...

"Look at it this way, one way or another the majority of his atoms found their way back to Earth."

 

[Eagle]

The only conclusion I have is that NASA doesn't want to go back to the moon. It even looks like they don't want to operate any other craft besides satellites and robotic landers. And it seems that they don't want to operate these craft for more than a few years anyways.

Well, fine. At least they're starting to get out of the way.

 

[Moonwalker]

People once claimed that heavier then air flight was not possible. Today, thousands of people travel in aircraft.

Just because we do not have the technology or knowledge now, does not mean that something is impossible.

Humans once even thought the earth is flat. Those are the usual arguments.

But it does not change the fact that aircraft are no spacecraft and that the atmosphere is not the universe. Beside the fact that we talk about flying, spaceflight and general aviation are two fundamentally different things with partly fundamentally different requirements the higher you want to get.

Utter nonsense. Humans can and will adapt to any environment they come across.

No, humans won't.

We can't even live in the oceans. And it is rather unlikely that we would ever get gills just because we come across water. We can't live on top of Mount Everest just because we come across. We also won't leave the spacecraft, put off the suite and live the way we do on earth, but even there only on certain places.

Humans are physically and intellectually limited. Plus humans are mortal. We can accomplish certain things which are within the scope of our capabilities, to explore different environments within a safe artificial environment we are adopted to and which we always have to take along, for a certain period of time. But we can't do everything.

 

[movieman]

Humans are physically and intellectually limited.

But on the verge of being able to redesign their bodies to do anything they choose; the brain is the weak point because it's made of goo rather than silicon or nanotech.

Plus humans are mortal.

There are probably people alive today who'll get to see the heat death of the universe; assuming we don't wipe ourselves out, we're probably within a few decades of immortality (i.e. lifespans increasing by at least one year per year).

---------- Post added at 01:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:19 PM ----------

No matter how advanced our technologies are today and will become in future, it won't ever be easy and cheap to go into space.

Five hundred years ago people would have said the same about crossing the Atlantic: the idea of flying across it faster than a musket ball for a few days' pay would have seemed absurd to them.

I remember Duncan Lunan, in one of his books, showing how you could theoretically lift a spacecraft from Earth's atmosphere and deposit it on the surface of Mars without using a single gram of propellant (though I suspect in the real world you'd need at least some for mid-course corrections). Of course you'd need a fair amount to set up the system of rotating tethers required to do it.

Other than our lower earth atmosphere, our oceans, our streets and railroads, space is and always will be a terribly unforgiving environment humans are not made for and not adaptable to.

Actually, free space is far more forgiving than many environments on Earth. Sure, humans need support to live there, but if you're coasting along with your engines off in between planets there isn't much that the environment itself is going to do that would harm you; solar flares are the most likely, with micrometeroids probably second behind them. Neither is as big a risk, if your spacecraft is properly designed, as facing a hurricane in a boat, or living a thousand feet below the surface of the sea.

 

[Urwumpe]

Humans are physically and intellectually limited. Plus humans are mortal.

And that applies also to you and your perception of the world around you. Sad but true.

We can accomplish certain things which are within the scope of our capabilities, to explore different environments within a safe artificial environment we are adopted to and which we always have to take along, for a certain period of time. But we can't do everything.

There is a very simple sentence, which sums it up well: To achieve the possible, you have to attempt the impossible.

You can never know, that something is impossible, if you have not tested all possibilities. Proving a negative (like something is impossible) is always a hard task and requires usually a way to turn the negative into a universal positive.

Which gets summed up again very well by Clarke's first law:
"When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong."

 

[movieman]

Which gets summed up again very well by Clarke's first law:
"When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong."

Actually, that brings up another thought: in one of Clarke's books I remember him talking about how da Vinci could have built a 'television' by using vast numbers of people with semaphore flags to transmit the signal and colored squares to display it; showing how what we do trivially today would have seemed utterly impossible in his time with no prospect of ever being possible.

Some of the few things we know that we're never likely to do are travel faster than light, build things smaller than the Planck radius or sustain temperatures below absolute zero; pretty much everything else is still up for grabs.

 

[Sky Captain]

Spaceflight is expensive because getting into orbit currently is expensive. When a reusable SSTO vehicle will be designed spaceflight will become cheaper. I would not be surprised if some 30 - 40 years later private companies have developed a spaceplane that can take you to an orbital tour for ~ 30 000 - 50 000 $.

 

[Eagle]

Now spaceflight being expensive isn't a problem if we all become richer. Wasn't there a time when only the extremely rich had more than a few changes of clothing?

 

[Moonwalker]

Crossing the Atlantic is not comparable to travel into space.

And, yes, immortality and eternal youth. The big human dreams, mostly dreamed by fearful and unhappy people (and partly megalomania people as well), probably exist for as long as humans are able to realizve and think about their finiteness. But good that most of us at least realize our finiteness, some do not or don't want.

Well, Botox parties, sillicon titts and genetically messed up foot might be the sad future for some sad people. But it all won't change the fact that we are mortal, even those who don't want to accept it.

---------- Post added at 08:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:15 PM ----------

I would not be surprised if some 30 - 40 years later private companies have developed a spaceplane that can take you to an orbital tour for ~ 30 000 - 50 000 $.

People were not surprised of that and predicting the same already 40 years ago...

 

[movieman]

Crossing the Atlantic is not comparable to travel into space.

Columbus' trip across the Atlantic was the 1490s equivalent of the Apollo program; back then it was a crazy dream, five hundred years later it's a matter of handing over a credit card and sitting in a seat for a few hours.

But it all won't change the fact that we are mortal, even those who don't want to accept it.

We are. But our descendants (and possibly some of us after reengineering) will either be living in caves or as close to gods as is possible in this universe.

'Never' is a very, very, very long time; given that we've gone from riding donkeys to walking on the Moon in 500 years, I can't see how anyone can imagine that we can never manage to live in space unless you expect us to wipe ourselves out very soon (which is certainly possible).

 

[Eagle]

Crossing the Atlantic is not comparable to travel into space.

And why not? Run out of water or get a hole in your boat and its gonna mean bad news. (and all manned spacecraft leak a little)

It used to take 2 months to sail across, now the time for a ship is 4-5 days. Oh and the tall ships had to follow currents and tradewinds, not unlike the interplanetary network. Now we steam right though on a mostly direct path, closer to what your path looks like when you do a 2 week transfer to Mars.

Energy now is the cheapest its ever been, and its gonna get cheaper...well we're the richest we've ever been...

 

[T.Neo]

We can't even live in the oceans. And it is rather unlikely that we would ever get gills just because we come across water.

I'm pretty sure we could inhabit in the oceans, given a good enough reason to live there.

We also won't leave the spacecraft, put off the suite and live the way we do on earth, but even there only on certain places.

Why would you want to leave the spacecraft? Our technology is our adaptation- instead of altering ourselves, we alter our environment. Or we bring it with us...

 

[Omhra]

Or it would be interesting to have a volunteer not exercise at all to see if he/she would loose the bones and turn to a squid... clearly an adaptation.
I don't know if one could call that evolution... or design but it is an adaptation.
I think we should send a small primate to be born at ISS and live out its life... ...to see what happens after a few generations.

 

[Urwumpe]

You also adapt at sea. That is the whole problem behind sea motion sickness.

 

[Hielor]

There are probably people alive today who'll get to see the heat death of the universe; assuming we don't wipe ourselves out, we're probably within a few decades of immortality (i.e. lifespans increasing by at least one year per year).

I think it's time for you to realize that science fiction novels are primarily FICTION.

 

[garyw]

With that nickname it's more likely that he has seen Armageddon one too many times.

 

[Nerull]

Lying in a heap, unable to move isn't much of an adaptation. We need bones.

 

[garyw]

Dammit Nerull, I'm a Doctor not an Astronaunt!

Oh, sorry. wrong bones........ :lol:

 

[movieman]

I think it's time for you to realize that science fiction novels are primarily FICTION.

It's really very simple: unless the human race wipes itself out, anything we can do, we will do, sooner or later.

The only limits on what the human race can do in the long term are set by the laws of physics; everything else is just engineering, which may be complex, time-consuming and expensive, but we have a heck of a lot of time left before the universe expires.

And if you don't think that dramatic increases in lifespan are coming in the next few decades, you ought to read more science rather than science fiction.

 

[Moonwalker]

To cross the oceans and to do space flight are two fundamentally different kind of things with fundamentally different requirements because of its fundamentally different environments. Such comparisons do not make any piece of sense.

As for the increase in lifespan:

some people have too much expectations and a too optimistic view on that. The increased lifespan doesn't have anything to do with immortality or going to become so. Beyond the 80 years, quality of living and happiness decreases dramatically while diseases increase (mostly you'll get nearly blind or rattly and bedridden). About 50% of the ninety-year-olds in the industrial nations suffer from dementia. And if we talk about the magic 100 years, only ~0.012% of the Germans for example become 100 years old. While the majority of them are almost seemingly dead (at least they still breathe and gaze at the ceiling 24 hours a day, but they can't move and talk anymore). Those very few who still seem to do well are exceptions. Also, keep in mind that those very few who are 100 years old now were not born at times of long lifespan. They have overcome two worldwars and rather bad times and they are only a very few people of a population of generation that does not exist anymore. It is by far not for sure that me or my nephews become 90 or 100 years old. Diseases but also diseases of aging increase.

Well, but what would life be without pipe dreams...