Theres proof that we landed on the moon

[insanity]

The problem with conspiracy theorists- of any stripe- is that their worldview is full of things that 'further' prove their points. When you start to organize your life around conspiracies then slowly but surely all the pieces of the puzzle need to fit together in order for your life to have meaning. That is not to say there isn't need to be a skeptic, but that we should even be skeptic of the skeptics.

At the end of the day, we can never know for sure the 'real' truth about anything- there will always be room for dispute (both reasonable and otherwise). Just read these forums sometimes for examples

 

[Aeadar]

Thank you for posting that, Fireballs619!

Way to go Buzz!

---------- Post added at 12:15 ---------- Previous post was at 12:13 ----------

Oops! Almost forgot...:hail:

 

[McLowery]

I don't know why people rarely say that they think both. We did land on the moon, yes but quite a bit of the footage that NASA claims to have been actually filmed on the lunar surface was actually pro shot on a set in the desert. The astronauts were not film makers and the US was in the peak of the cold war with the Soviets. Of course they made fake footage shots of the moon landings! I think the actual event for the astronauts was an uncomfortable, damn scary expedition where capturing great footage of the event sat on the bottom of the totem pole to things like, surviving the lunar landing, surviving the lunar EVA and successfully docking with the CM and getting back to earth. The astronauts had to play along with the propaganda footage and this is why hoaxers claim memory lapses and outright lying against them. They're not lying, it's just that they dont remember half of the events in the footage cause it is bogus footage!

 

[Urwumpe]

McLowery: after some many jumps in logic...Which footage is from Nevada, can you name one?

 

[Mantis]

I don't know why people rarely say that they think both. We did land on the moon, yes but quite a bit of the footage that NASA claims to have been actually filmed on the lunar surface was actually pro shot on a set in the desert. The astronauts were not film makers and the US was in the peak of the cold war with the Soviets. Of course they made fake footage shots of the moon landings! I think the actual event for the astronauts was an uncomfortable, damn scary expedition where capturing great footage of the event sat on the bottom of the totem pole to things like, surviving the lunar landing, surviving the lunar EVA and successfully docking with the CM and getting back to earth. The astronauts had to play along with the propaganda footage and this is why hoaxers claim memory lapses and outright lying against them. They're not lying, it's just that they dont remember half of the events in the footage cause it is bogus footage!

You're joking right? If not, that is utterly ridiculous in the extreme. It makes no sense. There is no evidence to support such a claim and there would have been NO REASON to fake footage when they WERE ACTUALLY THERE.

 

[Alexw95]

it makes sense why they would face it once but fake it 5 times just does not seem right

 

[Coolhand]

And therein lies the issue which those who fervently believe we did not land on the moon will latch to and never let go. Take them there to see it with their own eyes and they still wouldn't believe you, they'd probably claim you drugged them and took them to a sound stage in Nevada somewhere, even after the helmet came off and they asphyxiated. Some people are just like that.

The new images will change nothing but the weakest of attitudes towards the question of legitimacy. However, for those of us (myself included) who are quite happy to accept that the moon landings were real, we can sit back and revel in some awesome new shots, and ignore the arguments which will undoubtedly start firing back into life as a result of them.

I'm sure the images will sway a lot of those who sit on the fence to re-assess their position on the issue... Hopefully put the likes of mistah Siebrel outta business.

But you make an excellent point, for some the distrust runs so deep there's no level of "proof" that would prove it to them... As you say up to and including actually going there. I'm certain the theorists will discount anything like this as a trick or a special effect, and they'd have a point since it is very easy to fake things like this. They're still raving lunatics over this one imho however. You really can't trust images, if aliens landed outside the whitehouse, you wouldn't believe it just because you saw it on fox news, right? And even if you accepted that it happened there and the images were unaltered, you might think they were disguised honda robots or something... that somebody staged the entire thing.

In the eyes of science it wouldn't be proof of ET's, and images of apollo landing sites are in a sense just as fleeting as a passing spacecraft, because most of us, probably any of us, can't take images of the sites ourselves at all at the moment, let alone whenever we wanted, with our own equipment.

It really just comes down to the psychology of the individual assessing the evidence, for some very little actual data or proof is required to believe any crazy thing, others, no weight of evidence is ever enough. And for those individuals who still peddle their own ideas to this willing audience, the images will be twisted and discredited until they somehow prove the exact opposite of what they were intended to prove.

 

[Alexw95]

its the full video of fireballs

 

[McLowery]

McLowery: after some many jumps in logic...Which footage is from Nevada, can you name one?

I personally believe that the flag planting of Apollo 15 wasn't shot on the moon and there is footage of the LR with exhaust plumes puttering out of it. Now I'm not positive of the authenticity of that LR exhaust but I am totally sure of the flag footage for Apollo 15. It moves from the pressure wave of the approaching astronaut. There aren't pressure waves on the moon.

Just the fact of the lengths the U.S. government has gone with it's use of propaganda makes me certain of the idea of creating the "picture perfect" moon landings! I do however believe man has gone to the moon and they did so with Apollo.

 

[Urwumpe]

It moves from the pressure wave of the approaching astronaut.

You mean the MPEG compression artifact that was intentionally blown up by using a night-vision effect by a moon hoaxer?

The flag didn't move at all, only the depiction of the flag in the MPEG compressed video.

And what the hell do you mean with LR? There is only the LM or the LRV.

 

[Alexw95]

i guess we will have to wait till a later date in time to actually figure out if they did or not with a rover or somthing

 

[McLowery]

You're joking right? If not, that is utterly ridiculous in the extreme. It makes no sense. There is no evidence to support such a claim and there would have been NO REASON to fake footage when they WERE ACTUALLY THERE.

In the eyes of the U.S. government and intelligence sector there was very good reason for creating "sexed up" moon landing footage. The Soviets were very close to getting their own manned lunar missions underway and ahead of NASA's planned schedule until they had a couple of tragic catastrophes with their launch vehicle. Showing the world that NASA (essentially the U.S.A.) got men there first, in grand fashion none the less (with the great footage of it all) caused the Soviets to abandon their manned lunar missions all together. It was a great win for the U.S. in the cold war. You have to understand that cost wasn't a considered factor for this kind of clandestine operation during the cold war. That transferred over to the actual "space race" as well, cost wasn't a factor really.

 

[Linguofreak]

I don't know why people rarely say that they think both. We did land on the moon, yes but quite a bit of the footage that NASA claims to have been actually filmed on the lunar surface was actually pro shot on a set in the desert. The astronauts were not film makers and the US was in the peak of the cold war with the Soviets. Of course they made fake footage shots of the moon landings! I think the actual event for the astronauts was an uncomfortable, damn scary expedition where capturing great footage of the event sat on the bottom of the totem pole to things like, surviving the lunar landing, surviving the lunar EVA and successfully docking with the CM and getting back to earth. The astronauts had to play along with the propaganda footage and this is why hoaxers claim memory lapses and outright lying against them. They're not lying, it's just that they dont remember half of the events in the footage cause it is bogus footage!

This demands an XKCD link: http://xkcd.com/690/

 

[Aeadar]

As an owner of the fine Spacecraft Films Apollo 15 DVD set, I too, have seen the flag move on one occasion when approached by one of the astronauts.

However, I don't put this down to any fakery. Rather, I assume that the flag was planted in relatively loose soil which later shifted in response to the nearby astronauts weight as he walked (hopped?) by.

I think this all speaks to a 'presumtive mindset'. For example, when I see the flag move, I don't even consider fakery because:

A: I don't want to.

B: I don't believe ANY government is competent enough to maintain even a small hoax for 40 years. And...

C: As Mantis has already said, there would be no reason to fake something that has actually been done.





:hail:

 

[McLowery]

You mean the MPEG compression artifact that was intentionally blown up by using a night-vision effect by a moon hoaxer?

The flag didn't move at all, only the depiction of the flag in the MPEG compressed video.

And what the hell do you mean with LR? There is only the LM or the LRV.

I meant LRV. I've seen excellent quality footage of that flag planting and the flag DOES move the same direction the approaching astronaut is moving and it moves before he is even in view with the camera. My conclusion is he was creating a pressure wave of air and that is what makes the flag slightly sway. That is my "definitive" piece of footage that I can say with certainty that there is either an atmosphere that has some actual density on the moon or that footage wasn't taken there. There are a bunch of photos and films that are questionable but I couldn't use them as something definitive.

 

[Coolhand]

I meant LRV. I've seen excellent quality footage of that flag planting and the flag DOES move the same direction the approaching astronaut is moving and it moves before he is even in view with the camera. My conclusion is he was creating a pressure wave of air and that is what makes the flag slightly sway. That is my "definitive" piece of footage that I can say with certainty that there is either an atmosphere that has some actual density on the moon or that footage wasn't taken there. There are a bunch of photos and films that are questionable but I couldn't use them as something definitive.

I think you're at least going to have to post that high quality video clip if anyone is going to take you seriously here, you've really picked a tough forum to try and convert i have to say. Anyway, I don't believe it was hoaxed but I'd be interested to see it for sure.

 

[McLowery]

I think you're at least going to have to post that high quality video clip if anyone is going to take you seriously here, you've really picked a tough forum to try and convert i have to say. Anyway, I don't believe it was hoaxed but I'd be interested to see it for sure.

I definitely don't want to convert anyone to my own personal conclusions. I KNOW that we went to the moon, walked around on it, drove around on it and brought back geologic samples. That said, I also know what levels of deception the government is willing to go to, to make an event play out just the way they want it to in the minds of the average citizen. If ALL the footage is authentic there wouldn't be such a large amount that can be considered, at least, questionable. I am in no way a "hoaxer", I'm just being realistic in my line of thinking about the Apollo missions footage catalog.

 

[Aeadar]

and there is footage of the LR with exhaust plumes puttering out of it. Now I'm not positive of the authenticity of that LR exhaust

Was this during Apollo 15? If so, which EVA? At what point in the EVA? I'm always up for a reason to watch the moonwalks again, and getting to see the LRVs 'exhaust' certainly qualifies as a good reason.

If ALL the footage is authentic there wouldn't be such a large amount that can be considered, at least, questionable.

I've looked at a HUGE amount of Apollo photos and video over the years and I've never seen anything 'questionable'.

At least the way you use the word. I have seen things that made me realize that I didn't know everything, so, in that sense 'questionable'. But, as soon as I acquired more information, the 'question' became non applicable.

Photography for example, and shadows going in apparently two different directions.

Anyone can check this out for themselves by taking their handy digital camera outside on a sunny day and taking a picture looking towards the sun (upsun). Shadows on the left of the picture will be to the left of the 'shadow-source' while shadows on the right will go to the right. This is not evidence that the sun is a powerful floodlight close at hand, but rather, a function of 'field of view'.



:hail:

 

[bujin]

I meant LRV. I've seen excellent quality footage of that flag planting and the flag DOES move the same direction the approaching astronaut is moving and it moves before he is even in view with the camera. My conclusion is he was creating a pressure wave of air and that is what makes the flag slightly sway. That is my "definitive" piece of footage that I can say with certainty that there is either an atmosphere that has some actual density on the moon or that footage wasn't taken there. There are a bunch of photos and films that are questionable but I couldn't use them as something definitive.

What is your educational background and/or experience that leads you to that conclusion?

The explanation I had read in the past was a buildup and discharge of electrostatic charge, but whether that is true I dunno. What the hoax believers fail to point out is how for the rest of the video after the flag is planted it remains totally and utterly un-earthly still. If there was an atmosphere, it would most likely have moved the flag even a tiny bit in the minute or so the astronaut is standing right next to the flag.

 

[Coolhand]

I definitely don't want to convert anyone to my own personal conclusions. I KNOW that we went to the moon, walked around on it, drove around on it and brought back geologic samples. That said, I also know what levels of deception the government is willing to go to, to make an event play out just the way they want it to in the minds of the average citizen. If ALL the footage is authentic there wouldn't be such a large amount that can be considered, at least, questionable. I am in no way a "hoaxer", I'm just being realistic in my line of thinking about the Apollo missions footage catalog.

fair enough i wont argue with anything there, i like a good conspiracy theory. So, i'd still like to see the high quality footage of the anomalous flag movement... or any footage of it... any of that on youtube or somewhere?