Project Apollo - NASSP wow, it's tough!!!

Spicer

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I just recently downloaded the NASSP. I'm frustrated by the autopilot. Is there a way that I can just fly the darn thing by myself, without the autopilot?

If you ask me, that's the part of the challenge of orbiter...flying rockets that usually are really flown by autopilot!
 
First, are you using NASSP 6.4.2 or the 7 Beta? And if the beta, which mode?(Quickstart, Standard, or vAGC) I believe there are ways to fly the ascent yourself and that they are documented.
 
I just recently downloaded the NASSP. I'm frustrated by the autopilot. Is there a way that I can just fly the darn thing by myself, without the autopilot?

If you ask me, that's the part of the challenge of orbiter...flying rockets that usually are really flown by autopilot!

If you want to fly apollo by yourself I suggest using the AMSO mod found here: http://www.acsoft.ch/amso/amso.html
This has a basic autopilot but is easily switched off. It has all the same elements as NASSP except for the overwhelming control board. Further more, AMSO gives you objectives when you reach the moon including moon walking, rock gathering and you can even drive the lunar rover.
Highly recommended if you are an apollo fan like me but just want to fly orbiter style.

I have done the full NASSP missions several times but I end up finding that because NOTHING EVER GOES WRONG, the whole control panel interface merely allows you to replay historical missions rather then give you control over the ship (noting that NASSP is not complete yet).

But when you succesfully land on the moon with NASSP, its a great feeling and you really feel like you've accomplished alot.

Have fun!
 
I have done the full NASSP missions several times but I end up finding that because NOTHING EVER GOES WRONG, the whole control panel interface merely allows you to replay historical missions rather then give you control over the ship (noting that NASSP is not complete yet).

It's true for now, but keep an eye on the beta. ;) I checked it out a few weeks ago and was amazed at what has been implemented into the CSM when using Standard mode and all the things you have to keep track of on the panels.
I think AMSO is good FOR using APs and for beginners. I don't know of any way that AMSO can be more manual than NASSP can. You don't have to use any APs in either spacecraft.
 
I just recently downloaded the NASSP. I'm frustrated by the autopilot. Is there a way that I can just fly the darn thing by myself, without the autopilot?

If you ask me, that's the part of the challenge of orbiter...flying rockets that usually are really flown by autopilot!


lor.jpg
 
"Orbiter is a simulator not a game, it's supposed to be tough"

I wish to differ ... Orbiter is many things. To some it is a game, to some it is a simulator, to some it is a learning experience. You can not just focus on just one aspect of Orbiter.

I like to fly airplanes on the computer .. Orbiter is a game full of fun flying . I like to do missions on Orbiter .. Orbiter is a simulator that I can challenge my skills and test my abilities. I like to just watch Orbiter do historical re-enactments .. like landing on a Moon or on Mars. I sit down with my grand daughter and we land on the Moon with the autopilot and I tell her that I saw this on TV almost 40 years ago. Resently, I downloaded the Mars Lander and we just watched as it softlanded on Mars.

I would love to see addons that show Orbiter do more of these re-creations .. as a learning tool, not just for Orbiter players, but for the kids to demonstrate what our future in space really is. We live in a world of CGI and digital computers, To understand what it was like to launch a rocket in the day of slide rulers
 
I agree. I really enjoy doing missions, but also love fooling around and having fun with the GAME. It's not real. I don't need the stress and frustration of figuring out the 4000 switches on a board that don't really seem to do anything. (I've read the instrustructions. I would like to just hit +, control, and let the darn saturn ib take off!)

I've tried the newer beta of NASSP, but it's the same thing. The autopilot is pretty tough to disable.

Dave, I'm going to try the version you suggested. Thanks, guys!
 
To Rosey and Spicer...

Do you not read the title of the loading screen?

Spaceflight Simulator

This is NOT a game. This IS a simulator. This is not a oh weee let's point and burn in THAT direction sorta thing. It's something that takes actual intelligencet, paitence, and skill. And if you're not looking to do atleast half the work then this simulator probably isn't for you.
 
I'm frustrated by the autopilot. Is there a way that I can just fly the darn thing by myself, without the autopilot?

I'm assuming the "darn thing" is the Saturn V? :)

I didn't use NASSP 6.4.3 since a loooong time, so I'm not sure, but at least according to some docu you can disable the autopilot by keying VERB 46 ENTER in the DSKY.

That's not realistic and thus not working in Project Apollo - NASSP 7, here you can't disable the "autopilot" i.e. the Saturn Instrument Unit (IU). There was a (never used) "S-IVB takeover mode" of the AGC to steer it in case of a IU failure, but we didn't implement it yet, also I'm not sure if the Colossus version we use has this feature actually...

Cheers
Tschachim
 
To Rosey and Spicer...

Do you not read the title of the loading screen?

Spaceflight Simulator

This is NOT a game. This IS a simulator. This is not a oh weee let's point and burn in THAT direction sorta thing.

Yes it is a simulator as it attempts to simulate real space flight but to say its not a game is completely wrong...the only difference between playing orbiter and some other space flight game is that its harder or more realistic....you still play because you want to play....and its still not real life

It's something that takes actual intelligencet, paitence, and skill. And if you're not looking to do atleast half the work then this simulator probably isn't for you.

:@ ive read comments like this many times on forums...that orbiter is not for you if you wont put in the work..that its not your kind of beer....but ill tell you now im not myself intelligent, patient OR skillfull and i can still play orbiter and orbiter IS for me. ive learned a lot in a few weeks, i play it all the time. Its not nearly as hard as i first thought..i believe that orbiter is for every1 who is interested in space flight and to say that people who are not willing to do "work" shouldnt play it is incorrect...there are probably some things i will never achieve on orbiter (but then again i thought i would never be able to use IMFD, build iss or land on the moon with nassp) just like people who wont open a manual will never get from ksc to orbit..or from earth orbit to iss...but they still have fun with what there doing. i messed around with orbiter having fun on and off for nearly a year before getting serious.

im no good playing against professional soccer players so soccer ISNT FOR ME.
i can only make instant coffee and not ground so making coffee ISNT FOR ME
i mean come on...i cant sing but i dont want people saying i shouldnt sing in the shower...
 
Just to clarify.
I've only been using NASSP beta 7 which has the extended control panel.

Also I think people on this thread should try be a bit more constructive and not attack people's intelligence and also not take offence from a comment where none is implied.

I think orbital mechanics at its heart is a simple concept, no more complex then a ball you used to hit attached to a chain and a pole.
If you understand at least that then you can fly orbiter.
If you want to be able to fine tune your approach to flying, make a perfect orbit or be more fuel efficient etc., then this is where you invest more time into reading about the finer points of orbital mechanics and related jargon.
 
To Rosey and Spicer...

Do you not read the title of the loading screen?

Spaceflight Simulator

This is NOT a game. This IS a simulator. This is not a oh weee let's point and burn in THAT direction sorta thing. It's something that takes actual intelligencet, paitence, and skill. And if you're not looking to do atleast half the work then this simulator probably isn't for you.

Wow.

What a douche bag. For someone as "intelligent" as you, you may want to learn how to use Spellcheck.

I would like to underscore someone else's comment here that Orbiter is many things to many people. That's the great thing about Orbiter; it appeals on several levels to different people, with different aims. That's another great thing about the add-on community, in that people can get specific add-ons which they can enjoy. Some like futuristic stuff like the Altea line of spacecraft, other's are historical junkies who are truly thrilled with being able to go through the REAL Apollo checklists and implement all the switches in NASSP.

Different strokes for different folks mate.

Cheers,

_O.K._
 
Let's keep this thread on topic or the thread gets locked. Also, please refrain from tossing names around.
 
To be honest who cares if orbiter is a simulator or a game? Does it really make the blindest bit of difference? Leave the pointless arguments over nomenclature to the UN assembly, surely we're above that type of crap..
 
I have done the full NASSP missions several times but I end up finding that because NOTHING EVER GOES WRONG...

By the way, since you're using the Project Apollo - NASSP 7 Beta version, you might want to try our "random failure" feature:

Random failures don't happen during historical missions, but only the failures that happend actually. At the moment this is Apollo 13 mainly and some minor funnies during Apollo 11, things like the Apollo 12 lightning strike are still to do.

For random failures you need to use fictional missions, for example the "Project Apollo - NASSP\Fictional Missions\Random Failures Test Launch" scenario. The support of random failures is rather basic at the moment though and will be improved, look here for more informations: http://nassp.sf.net/wiki/Random_Failures

Cheers
Tschachim
 
By the way, since you're using the Project Apollo - NASSP 7 Beta version, you might want to try our "random failure" feature:

Random failures don't happen during historical missions, but only the failures that happend actually. At the moment this is Apollo 13 mainly and some minor funnies during Apollo 11, things like the Apollo 12 lightning strike are still to do.

For random failures you need to use fictional missions, for example the "Project Apollo - NASSPFictional MissionsRandom Failures Test Launch" scenario. The support of random failures is rather basic at the moment though and will be improved, look here for more informations: http://nassp.sf.net/wiki/Random_Failures

Cheers
Tschachim

Yes I know about those but you go through so much work flicking all those switches and I guess the question I want answered is this:

Do any of those switches actually do anything?
What I mean by this is that so what if I don't switch on the pyro arm and logic sequence before a launch.
Or I've launched without setting the FDAI.

In fact I've been able to launch by memorising the entire startup sequence and I only enable those things which I need.

Or do you simulate an over pressurisation of the O2 tanks. Can the simulator allow you to relieve this pressure.

How far do the mechanics "behind the scenes" go in NASSP. does it calculate temperatures, pressures and thermodynamic responses or is there just a switching order which makes things work.

Another way to reword this question is this: The dragonfly is simulated very realisticly including things like venting fuel causes thrust and fuel cells depletion affects systems etc.. does NASSP do this?
 
Do any of those switches actually do anything?

Yes, meanwhile most of the switches do what they did in the real spacecraft. We simulate most of the subsystems (GNC, SCS, EPS, ECS, RCS, SPS, TELECOM, SECS etc.) extensively, but of course there are some odds and ends we need to clean up before release, mostly unwired circuit brakers.

What I mean by this is that so what if I don't switch on the pyro arm and logic sequence before a launch. Or I've launched without setting the FDAI.

Nothing, the Saturn doesn't care, the CSM is mainly just a payload during launch (except LET jettision). :)

Or do you simulate an over pressurisation of the O2 tanks. Can the simulator allow you to relieve this pressure.

Yes, you can overpressure the cryo tanks with the heaters/fans, but they don't explode nor trigger the burst valves yet.

How far do the mechanics "behind the scenes" go in NASSP. does it calculate temperatures, pressures and thermodynamic responses or is there just a switching order which makes things work.

Another way to reword this question is this: The dragonfly is simulated very realisticly including things like venting fuel causes thrust and fuel cells depletion affects systems etc.. does NASSP do this?

Actually, we're using the same system as the dragonfly, Radu Poenaru's System & Panel SDK (SPSDK) in a heavily modified version, so all the things you mentioned are simulated properly. Look here for some things you can play with regarding temperatures, pressures etc.:

http://nassp.sf.net/wiki/Electrical_Power_System_(CSM)
http://nassp.sf.net/wiki/Environmental_Control_System_(CSM)

Our biggest problem currently is the lack of comprehensive documentation. For example the RCS has been finished a couple of months ago and is now working realistically, but I'm still writing on the documentation. The only subsystem with a wiki article as it should be is the SPS: http://nassp.sf.net/wiki/Service_Propulsion_System

Look here for an overview of all CSM systems related articles: http://nassp.sf.net/wiki/Category:CSM_systems

Just in case I didn't mention it already in this thread ;), the biggest highlight is the Virtual AGC, of course. It's an Apollo Guidance Computer hardware emulation and runs the original Apollo flight software, Colossus 249, most probably used for Apollo 9 and the only part of Project Apollo - NASSP which is no simulation, but the real thing. :)

Cheers
Tschachim
 
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what an interesting thread.

How far Orbiter has become in just a few years...

I can see where peoples "intelligence" can be hurt. However it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out how to be a good "orbiteer".
I hope we can all agree to that.

In what Tschachim wrote, how far we have gone from the short time I started looking at Orbiter to where we have re-created the AGC.
 
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