Idea A unique proposition...one collective effort

[datubaman]

As we all can plainly see, this forum is home to some of the greatest and most talented and most creative addon developers.

We have Coolhand, whose meshes are some of the most beautiful things I've seen. Wehaveaproblem has given us a wonderful look into the future spaceport with Wideawake Intenational (quite frankly, I just enjoy barnstorming the freight hangers). We have dbeachy, a codemaster if I ever saw one, whose first words I suspect were either in C++ or binary. I'm pretty sure Dan Steph is on here somewhere, and we all know what wonderful work he has done. I know that there are some folks from the Frankofone site that are hanging around here, who will definetly never surrender their secrets to making amazing addons. The SSU team who gave the all us standard everyday orbinauts a chance to see what actually goes into flying the shuttle calls this place home (though I have yet to get that thing into orbit). And I'm pretty sure that there are others who I have failed to mention who are just as amazing as these folks.

With such a cast of incredibly skilled and talented addon developers, seeing the amazing things that they have created on their own. This thougth rings out in my mind, "What if they worked together."

Thus, I give a unique proposition, one that I believe holds great promise, that all the developers, together in one collective effort, work together on one single project, a grand combination of all the skill and talent that this forum holds within it. Many of you may laugh and skoff at this, but I have a vision of what all together we can accomplish.

I cannot wait.

 

[edsupagood]

Wow this is a great idea! I think great things could come out of this.

---------- Post added at 03:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:47 PM ----------

Do you have a certain project in mind or are you just suggesting this?

 

[Zatnikitelman]

But all us devs already ARE working on a giant collaborative project, Orbiter. You say "What if they worked together." Well they do. I can put a Francophone station module in SSU, and fly it to Dan's Arrow, where I then leave it in Lunar Orbit to be visited by an XR2. Every developer has something unique to contribute, and each contribution enhances Orbiter in its own unique way.

 

[datubaman]

I see what you are trying to say, but that is not what I have proposed.

I have proposed that all the developers in this community work together on one project, thus combining and focusing their collective talent and skill into a single addon.

Besides, the addon developers did not make orbiter, Martin Schweiger did. The developers simply add to the masterpiece that he has already provided.

 

[Loru]

Well - collaborotaion occurs on smaller scale here (dbeachy1 & Coolhand etc.)

I think your idea won't work. Most of addons are children of particular member's dreams. Even If you hire all dev in here you'll make only one or 2 people's dream come true. You have to love your project to work with it like all addon devs do.

Working for someone else isn't the same. It's not as satisfactory as raising your own project.

This thing can work only if you find project atractive for all add-on devs at one time.
If you find one I'll surelly join.

 

[halcyon]

Too many variables to consider.
Everyone's individual time schedules, amount of work able to be put in per person, etc.

This is why people work in small teams because everyone has different time constraints and real world commitments.

 

[orbitingpluto]

Didn't the recent Vostok addon have a least a half-dozen people working over a year to make it?

I think that counts as one collective effort.

 

[PennyBlack]

Too many variables to consider.
Everyone's individual time schedules, amount of work able to be put in per person, etc.

This is why people work in small teams because everyone has different time constraints and real world commitments.

Like the Borg operating through a 54K modem.

We exist in the Orbiter universe because of the creators.

 

[jinglesassy]

Your vision will not work. First of all who will manage it? Not to mention the many different time zones, different visions for the addon, different coding styles, real life, and so much more.

 

[Rtyh-12]

It could work. Time zones? Seriously, they don't code in a chat window... And real life constraints are an obstacle before every add-on. Different visions could be a problem however.

I still think this idea is great. (I've had this idea before too, actually) There are obstacles however.

 

[N_Molson]

The problem I see is that different people use different methods and different tools.

Meshes : depending you use 3DSMax, Anim8tor, Blender, you'll lose some data proper to the modeling software by importing/exporting. Also, each modeler has it's own "style", like in paint, or sculpture.

Code : there are the pro/anti-Spacecraft3, the pro/anti-Multistage2, with compatibility issues involved. If we consider C++, making your own code easy to read by other people involves a lot of work, and adding comments everywhere like "this variable EgT is for this, this variable VVl is for that"... So it would be necessary to etablish some "good C++ behaving code", to make sure everyone share the same basis. And again, each coder has its own style.

Even worse, Meshes and Code are linked. Defining animations require an extensive knowledge of the mesh and of the code... So again, we would need conventions to name the meshgroups, and it is not always easy to apply (I, for exemple, still have no idea how Anim8tor "sorts" the meshgroups, but it looks messy)...

 

[Urwumpe]

I recommend researching the "add-on making economics" here a bit more. Simply said: We devs don't live from love alone. People have only limited time and are not paid for their work here.

Most of us also don't even get much love for their development work. If David413 does not implement a specific feature that a single user wants and is evil enough to also tell this user in brief, but friendly words that he does not want to do that, he is Americas next Castro. If there is a bug that needs a few months of free time for getting fixed, people hate the devs for not stopping all other unimportant things like paid work, wifes, children and friends for fixing this single bug.

Of course you will then only do things that you are yourself happy with. I have my pet projects, others have theirs. The only reason for me to collaborate with others beyond my pet projects is simply some sort of barter trade: I help you to help me. You can do something that I need, and I can do something that you need. There is also another currency there, that is called respect, that is much harder to quantify. if somebody has my deepest respect for his add-on work, I have less problems putting my own projects behind in schedule for helping him on a specific problem.

It isn't the big Gleichschaltung that you want, sure, but it works. I don't want to see the fun in developing for Orbiter be lost by having to follow orders. I don't want to be managed, especially not by people who equate management as "Bossing people around and distribute useless titles that have no bijective projection to the work done".

If you want to see things done here, in my personal experience, you need to have a lot of the currencies called dedication and competence. If you invest a lot of time and love into a project, even if you can't do the add-on alone, you will get respect for this that can eventually be turned into collaboration. Maybe your own project will need to wait a few weeks because your own skills are needed to help on another project of another developer to gain more respect. If you already have specific work packages that have known specific problems to be solved, it is easier to find collaborators, as if you just have a big cloudy idea and no clue how to realize it or how it actually should look like finally.

I have never[1] met any real egoist among the Orbiter add-on developers. Nobody who did not deserve respect, or who mistreated other developers. All people maybe have not the same goals for Orbiter, but all have the same views of how they want to be treated by others and treat others that way as well. Some developers are more difficult personalities as others, but that is always that case in the social world.


[1]Except in the primordial times of Orbiter, when the big myths and legends had their origin.

 

[N_Molson]

I don't want to see the fun in developing for Orbiter be lost by having to follow orders. I don't want to be managed, especially not by people who equate management as "Bossing people around and distribute useless titles that have no bijective projection to the work done".

:hesaid:

[1]Except in the primordial times of Orbiter, when the big myths and legends had their origin.

These were certainly the Times of the Probe ?

:rofl:

 

[Urwumpe]

These were certainly the Times of the Probe ?

:rofl:

Absolutely

Back then, people really hailed the Probe, or had dinitrogentetroxide and unsymmetrical dimethylhydrazine rain down on the sinners. Not this modern laissez-faire pseudo-religion that forms the majority of the Probe cult today.

 

[datubaman]

Make no mistake, I understand how much effort must go into a project in order to see it to fruition. It takes plenty of hard work and time to make a masterpiece, and these addons are no exception. I also realize that I am of very low status in this community, and have no true experience making addons. There is very little reason for you to respect me.

True, there will be difficulty as to visions of what the addon should be. That is something that will have to be agreed upon by those who are involved. Sure, there will still be those who share a different vision

As for the issue of who will head the project, I must thank Urwumpe for helping me see in. The person who leads it will be the one from among the participants whom they respect the most, and has the most experience.

There are many other things to consider, and many obstacles to overcome. But, this can work. I am sure that great things can come of this.

 

[Wishbone]

{g} can't see the vision behind a thick veil of smoke. I thought that was legal only in Amsterdam. What addon exactly do you think should be done?

 

[datubaman]

I would go with a spaceplane of sorts, kinda like the Ravenstar, but with SSU level depth to it.

However, the decision is not mine to make. It is up to those who participate to decide.

 

[RisingFury]

One of the important rules of working in a project: The more people that are involved, the higher the chance that the project will fall apart under it's own weight.

 

[Eli13]

Absolutely

Back then, people really hailed the Probe, or had dinitrogentetroxide and unsymmetrical dimethylhydrazine rain down on the sinners. Not this modern laissez-faire pseudo-religion that forms the majority of the Probe cult today.

:rofl:

 

[Urwumpe]

I would go with a spaceplane of sorts, kinda like the Ravenstar, but with SSU level depth to it.

I already do something like that in collaboration, and because I have the SSU mindset too deep in my bones. Believe me: You don't want to do that. It is 99% paperwork (study, system engineering, calculations) to get the behavior some sort of plausible. Also, such a project is like a iceberg, every tiny visible progress is produced by endless lines of code below the waterline.