Can Star Trek really work ?

[Donamy]

With all the Warping going on, according to Einstein, shouldn't many years be going by on Earth? How do they keep in the present with people back home? Maybe I'm missing something. :blink:

 

[RisingFury]

Dude... it's Sci Fi. Watch it for the entertainment it provides, not for the physics they make up.


I study Physics, but I still love StarGate.

 

[Donamy]

So I guess you're saying no. I wasn't thinking about the entertainment value, but the way Si-Fi genre is accepted to be our future, when it really isn't possible, the way it is depicted. How will space travel evolve, if ever?

 

[Moonwalker]

According to Einstein, time is only something that we read off a clock.

 

[Urwumpe]

We will never have Star Trek. Just as much as we never had the Jules Verne novels realized.

We landed on the moon successfully, and we had many many parallels to the sci-fi novel of the past, but how we did it was not imaginable to Jules Verne then.

 

[Timothy Joseph]

Well if the Enterprise is collapsing and expanding space (ie "warping"), then no, it's inhabitants wouldn't experience time any differently from a relatively stationary observer. They'd be in a bubble of normal space which is itself traveling super-luminously, rather than traveling super-luminously themselves.

 

[the.punk]

Some people are saying that creating a warp field is "theoreticly" possible. But I think they cannot get the energy needed for that of some kilos antimatter.
When you're flying with warp your "actual velocity" could be under light, because it's not you flying to earth or something. The space is moving around you.
But as I said before, to create such field you need much more energy than just a warp core.

 

[Ghostrider]

With all the Warping going on, according to Einstein, shouldn't many years be going by on Earth? How do they keep in the present with people back home? Maybe I'm missing something. :blink:

SF warp drives allow the ships and the crews to go well over lightspeed bypassing relativistic effects. Essentially, they either "bend" spacetime or move to a different universe where the slowest particles travel faster than tachyons.

There are few instances where the time dilation effect is actually part of the plot, like in Haldeman's "The Forever War" where the entire war is planned out over decades depending on when a given troop contingent will arrive at its destination, and the effect on the troops returning home to whole different realities than those they had known.

 

[Zachstar]

With all the Warping going on, according to Einstein, shouldn't many years be going by on Earth? How do they keep in the present with people back home? Maybe I'm missing something. :blink:

Its entirely possible. Just not with current technology.

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Warp_field
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Warp_drive
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Warp

Now the way we do achieve FTL will likely involve something a tad more advanced than throwing plasma at coils. But the idea of "bending" space or going into another type of space to bypass the limits of this type is sane. The laws of Einstein will remain but only for non FTL travel.

 

[garyw]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcubierre_drive

 

[Star Voyager]

Can Star Trek really work? No.

 

[Moonwalker]

Well, theoretically everything is possible and everything of course can work. Theoretically, I can even fold together the whole universe and carry it in my left hand or right hand trouser pocket...

 

[blane]

The closest realistic concept for a Warp Drive would probably be The Alcubierre Drive.

To answer the initial question: There are no relativistic effects when travelling in Warp, so there is no time dilation. To quote the Wikipedia article:

"The ship would ride this wave inside a region known as a warp bubble of flat space. Since the ship is not moving within this bubble, but carried along as the region itself moves, conventional relativistic effects such as time dilation do not apply in the way they would in the case of a ship moving at high velocity through flat spacetime. Also, this method of travel does not actually involve moving faster than light in a local sense, since a light beam within the bubble would still always move faster than the ship; it is only "faster than light" in the sense that, thanks to the contraction of the space in front of it, the ship could reach its destination faster than a light beam restricted to travelling outside the warp bubble. Thus, the Alcubierre drive does not contradict the conventional claim that relativity forbids a slower-than-light object to accelerate to faster-than-light speeds."

However, this concept is rather utopic. Even if it works, the resources to actually put it in use are way too expensive.

 

[tblaxland]

^ What they said. I do, however recommend [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Physics-Star-Trek-Lawrence-Krauss/dp/0465002048/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1245803474&sr=1-1"]Krauss' Physics of Star Trek[/ame]

 

[SlyCoopersButt]

I believe I read that exact book many years ago, Wish I could find where it's hiding in the home.

 

[Hielor]

Well, theoretically everything is possible and everything of course can work. Theoretically, I can even fold together the whole universe and carry it in my left hand or right hand trouser pocket...

Some theories, however, are more valid, practical, and reasonable than others...

 

[SiberianTiger]

Well if the Enterprise is collapsing and expanding space (ie "warping"), then no, it's inhabitants wouldn't experience time any differently from a relatively stationary observer. They'd be in a bubble of normal space which is itself traveling super-luminously, rather than traveling super-luminously themselves.

The problem with a popular Sci-Fi is not that it defies some physics laws: it is pretty much permittable as it's making the plot much more lively. The real problem, however is that Sci-Fi authors aren't consistent in applying the alternative physics laws they invent.

Let's imagine the Enterprise is to pass near a stationary starship at the warp speed with its "space-time bubble" active. I wonder what would happen to that unlucky ship? What they would to to a planet they pass by closely at warp speed, then? Doesn't having such technology on board make all the guns, beams, shields etc. they carry a useless load? Like having a sling when travelling around in a tank.

 

[Zachstar]

Well they do carry antimatter torpedoes that do far less than a fission warhead yet use antimatter when in reality each torpedo ought to be enough to blow a hole the size of texas into a planet.

So not much on the realism. It usually ends up being the inspiration for developing the very tech it uses.

 

[Ghostrider]

Well they do carry antimatter torpedoes that do far less than a fission warhead yet use antimatter when in reality each torpedo ought to be enough to blow a hole the size of texas into a planet.

Because the torpedoes' yield can be easily adjusted from subnuclear to asteroid-busting grade, depending on how much A/M you put into them. As for carrying small arms, it's done on CBGs as well. You don't exactly want to do the Death Star on each and every planet you visit...

 

[Andy44]

Because the torpedoes' yield can be easily adjusted from subnuclear to asteroid-busting grade, depending on how much A/M you put into them.

Well then when in combat they should have it dialed all the way up, so that near misses still blast the target into next year. Of course the real reason it's not so powerful is because the writers needed the drama of starships taking less-then-fatal damage, similar to naval vessels hitting each other with cannonballs.

All the "science" of Star Trek is handwavium made up to serve the writer's plot needs, and in the case of the original series (ST:TOS) is was often made up because they didn't have the budget for something more realistic. The transporter, for instance, was invented because they didn't have the budget for a shuttle flight special effect sequence every time the crew needed to go somewhere.

And of course, artificial gravity is the most popular handwavium device ever used in sci-fi; with the exception of 2001: A Space Odyssey and a few other films like Red Planet, few TV shows or movies want to spend the money to do zero-G special effects.

As for FTL travel, who knows? You can't say for certain that it will never happen, but you can say with some confidence that if it ever does, it probably won't look like Star Trek. And you can also say that our current knowledge of physics says it's improbable.