Question Getting data from oh

[Spacethingy]

Luki, I don't know if this will help, but the open source game OTTD (a Transport Tycoon clone) has a mod downloading/installing feature built into the game's GUI.

It may be useless, but it might be helpful to have a look!

 

[Turbinator]

Why are you all so hostile towards his idea?

I think this is a beautiful idea, Orbiter never had a Mod Manager, and this definitely sounds like a very powerful one. Usually Mod Managers for games with a very active mod community are offline only programs, because there is usually a vast array of download database sites that host content, and they all do it in their own way. So you physically have to download the mods you want, unzip them, and then place all the mods in the mod managers folder. Orbiter has the advantage of having a centralised distribution site, the Orbiter Hangar and therefore creates the possibility of having a Mod Manager that supports a 1-Step point and click interface;

Brows for a mod, click one button, and everything is done.

 

[Wishbone]

luki1997a, it's going to be a good exercise for you in regular expressions and HTML parsing and issuing HTTP requests from .NET. The app needs a crawler to get all the records into the internal database, yet please do so slowly, with a deliberate delay of 5-6 seconds between requests. Once you import the records, it's easy to display them for the user. After that, you can actually turn to implementing better search ideas, with this project under your belt.

EDIT: to re-cap - folks, please regard this as a training mission. To accomplish that, luki1997a needs to brush up on:

HTTP protocol
regular expressions
HTML parsing (with nested tables, perhaps)
LINQ
relational databases
user interface

Luki1997a, please feel free to ask me any questions. Always glad to help...

 

[Turbinator]

I just realised that you could have the Orbiter Hanger website itself running in your Mod Manager, therefore not having to deal with database retrieval issues, and only have the Orbiter Mod Manager take over and do it's thing once the user clicks the download link. It would save you a lot of headaches. You could have two tabs; one for the management side of things, showing you all the mods you downloaded and which ones are active or inactive. And the other tab for actually browsing Orbiter Hangar.

 

[Wishbone]

But it would not be that instructive to code the stuff, would it?

 

[Scruce]

Why are you all so hostile towards his idea?

Because it's turning the usually easy process of downloading an addon into a much harder one, and with not much if any benefit over it's cost.

Plus, it looks like he is going to give it a go anyway, that's a good thing to all those who think it's a good thing. You can download this when it is completed, no one will stop you. But I, for one, will not be downloading this because I find browsing OHM easier as it is.

Things are fine just the way they are. :2cents:

 

[garyw]

Why are you all so hostile towards his idea?

I think this is a beautiful idea, Orbiter never had a Mod Manager, and this definitely sounds like a very powerful one.

This isn't a mod manager. It's another downloader.

If you want a mode manager whats wrong with something like SVN to do this role?

 

[Turbinator]

I just don't think that we should despise something if we don't like it. If he wants to make a program, let him make a program. None of us are going to suddenly die tomorrow because someone decided to make an alternate option to something we are already used to.

I don't like the whole "This is my way, it is the only way, and you should be punished for thinking otherwise" mentality. The only thing it ever gave us was war, famine, and misery.

 

[garyw]

No arguments here but best to know the ups and downs of something before investing time in something that may or may not be of use.

Luki1997a said in his original post that initially this is going to be for him and him alone. This is a worthy goal because he'll be able to learn a lot from the project and I wish him luck.

 

[Scruce]

I just don't think that we should despise something if we don't like it.

No, it's not like that.

As we all know, luki1997a is very good at creating programs. O fully agree that luki1997a should use this program as a testbed, to further enhance his coding ability. However, I do not agree that it should be fully released, as it will create a 'tear' in the organisation of Orbit Hangar Mods. Plus making it more work for Vash to implement into the system and for users to access.

Also, I think it is very unfair how you are calling out our constructive criticism as "despise". We do not despise luki1997a's work at all. All we wish to do is nudge luki's exceptional talents in a direction that has a more beneficial use for Orbiter and the community, we do care about him too, you know.

All in all, there is no problem with developing it, just use it as a testbed.

I wish you luck luki, in all of your developments. :tiphat:

Scruce.

 

[Face]

Besides being a great testbed for database coding, I think such a project can only success in the community, if it comes with value added.

Just offering an addon downloader interface - like OH already is - will not attract a lot of people. But the OP already outlined a possible feature that many folks wanted: easy addon management. If you combine the downloader with a manager (i.e. easy installation, no config fiddling, proper collision solver, no missing references etc.), it has the potential to lift off.

Unfortunately, such a combination would mean to not only proxy downloads from OH, but to inspect them, analyze them, rearrange them, add meta-data and so forth. This is a much bigger coding challenge then writing the equivalent of an exchanged CSS of a given website.

I think the reason why there is "hostile" attitude towards the OP is that most know this aspects and assume that the OP is ignorant to them, thinking that it will just come together along the road. TBH, I tend to fall in this camp, too, from what I've read here. Without the "hostile", of course...

my :2cents:

 

[luki1997a]

Thanks Turbinator and Wishbone.

I've got new idea for store. After launching app you will see it:

then you can easily register. After logging in to store, you will see your User's CP and you will be able do add add-ons to respository:

And after adding it every user will see it:

I'm working on MySQL now...
EDIT: Is MySQL the best way to handle it? Or use another database?

 

[garyw]

EDIT: Is MySQL the best way to handle it? Or use another database?

Depends. Are you expecting people to install mysql locally to use your application or are you hosting a mysql database somewhere?

 

[RisingFury]

If you're serious about this, than I have some suggestions:
Drop the database, the HTML parsing, the woo-dee-doo.

Instead, be nice to Vash and ask him to create a new login so you could read the OHM database on the fly. No need to duplicate the database on your own. That'll only put a huge strain on OHM when people download your app and all start replicating the entire database.

If you want to add to the OHM experience, than connect to the database, but create your own search algorithm that is more efficient than that of OHM. That way people searching for mods will have an easier time tracking them.

Your app should also allow tracking of all the Orbiter installations a user has and the ability to download, install and delete addons from each.

I don't think that just replicating OHM on an app is a good idea, if it adds nothing that OHM website already has. It'll just produce strain on the database and the server.

 

[jedidia]

Such an app might make sense if it delivers direct from-the-web installation of the add-ons as well as uninstallation, all managable over several Orbiter installations, with compatibility check (e.g. I want to have this add-on in this installation - WARNING: addon X in this instalation reports compatibility issues with the one you're trying to install. Do you want to a) abort b) remove the reporting add-on c) install this add-on to a different orbiter installation).
Otherwise, I wouldn't see much point in it other than a coding excercise.

EDIT: Ooops, just noticed that I basically said the same thing as Rising Fury...)

 

[Ripley]

It should also take care of the not-so-compliant add-ons, which have a "weird" inner folder structure...

 

[agentgonzo]

Get rid of the 'store' in the name. Yes, I know that the Apple App store and the Android App store both have 'store' in the name and are cool and you want to be like them, but a store is somewhere you go to buy things. Everything on OH is free. So it's not a store.

I can't see that I'll use it. I can't see that a lot of people will use it, but if you want to create it for the challenge of creating it, then that's a great idea as it means that you learn from doing it (and I'm always in favour of people learning and trying new things). Try to get a public (readonly) db login from Vash as it'll
A) stop the server getting hammered as others have said
B) teach you SQL as well.
C) Be a lot easier in the long run.

 

[luki1997a]

If you want add-on installer, there's one made by me:
[ame="http://www.orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=5232"]http://www.orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=5232[/ame]

 

[luki1997a]

I was thinking about my good'ol "Phoenix Add-on installer". I think I can transform it to some kind of "store", named "Orbiter free store". It shouldn't be very difficult. I can eliminate databases and store links and installation instructions for add-ons in plain txt files on my ftp server.

Example:
You open app and search for add-on named "My super add-on", you find it and click install. Some of add-ons such as spacecraft will be able do uninstall, but add-ons like surface tiles won't. Every add-on will have its own installation script.
For example it will look like this:

;My addon installation script ;comment
copy Meshes ;Copy all folders to root
copy Textures
copy Config
copy Modules
YN "Do you want to install hi-res textures?" Y = 7 N = 8 ;Display Yes/No dialog, if yes go to line 7 if no go to line 8
copy Textures2 ;line 7
done ;line 8 DONE!

And some of them will have uninstallation script like this:

del Meshes/mesh.msh
del Meshes/vc.msh
del Textures/tex.dds
del Textures/vc.dds
...
done

 

[RisingFury]

Every add-on will have its own installation script.

That's a joke, right? :facepalm:

And who do you expect to write those scripts? Addon devs themselves? Some can't even put together a Spacecraft3 without it containing bugs. You'll end up with a download manager that has the capability to install only a small fraction of addons. And what about the thousands of addons already uploaded? You just dump those? If so, your manager will be useless.

You need to set up your addon manager in a way that it takes care of everything, not that users need to put in effort to download and install their addons. It's easier to just unzip than go through a bunch of scripts and programs.

If anything, make it fully autonomous.