OHM Soyuz 7K series

Hello.

I have a CTD in 2 cases:

1. When I select any of "Launch" scenarios and try to exit orbiter. CTD causes during a "closing" window. (that one with landing shuttle)

2. When I select any of "Launch" scenarios, ascent to orbit and quicksaving when Soyuz is in orbital configuration (all modules - orbital, service and reentry - are "released") - when I quit Orbiter, run it again and try to load this quicksave - CTD on loading screen.

With "Orbital" scenarios all is OK. My log looks very similar to that Spruce's one from post #38 - no missing textures, no wrong meshes etc.
What i have to do? I'm waiting for good Soyuz addon for ~5 years.... :(

I have all required addons and spacecraft3 and "clean" installation of Orbiter + OrbiterSound (any other addons except Soyuz7k and required).

Sorry for my terrible english.
 
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First of all, sorry for taking this long to answer.

1. This seems to be a problem with the Soyuz FG addon, as I have it too, and in instalations where the Soyuz 7k never appeared. Though it can be avoided by selecting the "Extra" tab in the Orbiter launchpad, select "debugging options", and then "Orbiter shutdown options". Select "respawn orbiter process", and click OK.

2. As for this one, it's an odd one. It's not a spacecraft3 problem, since if it was, the launch scn wouldn't load. As with Scruce's problem above, I can't reproduce it, and unfortunately I have no clue on it's cause, but I shall investigate and do my best.

PS: IMO, that's not bad english. I've seen much, much worse on a Prime-Minister of a certain cough*look at the flag beneath my avatar*cough country. :lol:
 
2. As for this one, it's an odd one. It's not a spacecraft3 problem, since if it was, the launch scn wouldn't load. As with Scruce's problem above, I can't reproduce it, and unfortunately I have no clue on it's cause, but I shall investigate and do my best.

Yesterday I discovered, that this "quicksave-load-CTD" problem is created probably by remains of R-7 launch boosters, fairings etc.
When I enter Scenario Editor module (F4 -> Custom) after orbit insertion and delete all remaining fairings, wrecks etc. then (quick)save state - there is no more CTD's when I load quicksave state and all is working perfectly.

I thik it's a Soyuz FG problem....

And question about sound:
There is correct, that there is no launcher sounds in VC - only cockpit ambience? I love to fly in a VC and lack of booster sound inside the spaceship is strange for me.
There is no radio sequences. I set "Baikonur" frequency in Radio and only hearing "twenty!" in a monent of liftoff and english GPWS short before landing.
Hmmm... maybe I do something wrog. I returning to "Orbiter" after four years and forgot so many things.... ;)

======= EDITED 15.04.2011 ===========
OK, i found what's REALLY been wrong. I have CTD's when I trying to load quicksave state - but I've running Orbiter with a DOUBLE CLICK on a scenario file (quicksave) in scenario selecting window on a Orb Launchpad.
When I SELECT a scenario (quicksave) file and click "Launch Orbiter" - CTD's is no more - even without deleting R7 remains in scn file.
Problem is solved. EOT :)

====== EDITED FEW HOURS LATER... =======
I suggest:
1. Move first MFD scrren - that one in "vizor" - on a main control panel. it will be more and clearly visible. Now i have to turn on external MFD for some orb. operations.
2. Correct the "angle of display" second MFD.
3. Upgrade VC texture - "vizor" have to be in a middle.
4. Vizor may be a 3rd MFD - using CameraMFD we may simulate periscope view. But... actually CameraMFD doesn't work in Orb 2010-P1.... :(
 
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Suggestion noted. :thumbup: I'll see what I can do, though it was 4th rock who handled the VC. As for it being in the middle, the vzor on the 7k was actually off centered (note it's position on the outside of the spacecraft)
 
Fifth suggestion:
In the Soyuz 7K-T 32, 33 & 34 scenarios - is impossible to get on the Salyut station. Relative inclination is very huge, there is no possibility to correctly align the planes.
I have rerworked this scn's - now RInc after orbit insertion between Soyuz and Salyut is 0.00. (I have changed the orbital data of space station).
May I release it on forum?
 
My scn's are not correctly now. Coming soon.

Sixth suggestiojn - FUEL USAGE.
I don't know how is possible to sync orbit with Salyut, approach to station, dock, undock and doing correctly deorbit burn without "refuelling" at Salyut. Engine uses too many fuel IMHO.
Salyut is on high orbit, then deorbit process requires ~250 units of fuel - nearby 40% tank. Many fuel has spending at approaching to station.
 
Another suggestion, I don't know if this has been covered in a previous post but the landing rockets appear to be completely useless. They have no effect on the spacecraft's landing velocity and they seem to burn for far to long (these problems may be related.)
 
Another ones :)
- Launch sound (& radio chatter) in VC!
- Automatic: jettison hatches, deploy parachute and fire landing rockets.
- Replace parachute mesh & texture. I suppose it's taken from old TMA addon...? Very similar...

In a far future....
- VC of a orbital module?
- Fully working B3OP.
- Some 2D panels - or clickable panels in VC jut like in Igel's Vostok
- EVA possibility (in a Soyuz-Soyuz docking missions...).
 
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Przemek77:

Launch sounds and radio chatter: There are good sounds on that site with the Soyuz 1 analisys you found, but we didn't get permission from the author, as his e-mail seems to be invalid.
Automatic stuff: Requires coding, wich is out of my range, and 4throck too, I believe.
Parachute mesh and texture: Texture, I can do, mesh, maybe. If it's from old TMA addon, dunno, 4th rock handled that.

In the far future, BO VC would be possible, as long as anyone finds a nice 360º image of it.
The Vzor, we would have to borrow it from the Vostok addon, and would require modifications, in other words, coding.
2D panels, they were being made (look for the 7k dev. thread), but I believe that's over now, unfortunately.
EVA, possible, and I actualy thought of adding it through UMMUFA, but it would be quite difficult to handle since the 7k's composed of 3 docked modules. Maybe now with Artlav's new addon, it's easier. In fact, I'm gonna start working on that, thanks for the reminder. :thumbup:

The fuel thing, I think the fuel quantities and engine performances were based on the real Soyuz data. Nevertheless, I'll see what I can do.

Columbia42:

That was actualy covered in the Dev. thread, but I'll look into it.

Thanks for the sugestions guys, I'll see what I can do to improve it. As you see, we're currently limited to SC3 (though I'm learning coding :)), so there are some stuff that can't be done for now.
 
Hmmm.... i think that sounds from sven are not copyrighted. F.e. Komarov's speeches are on few other sites.
There are few russian radio sound-packs, which are IMHO good. Problem is that in the spacecraf there are not playable now.
I tried it in the Thorton's TMA and all is OK.

Engines... Thorton's TMA has a lesser fuel usage, but... maybe real TMA are more "economic" ? I don't know.

Here are my corrected scenarios for Soyuz 32, 33, 34:
 

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I left a message at Sven's site. Some of the sounds there were picked by Sven himself, I believe, so that's why I think we should ask first.
 
I left a message at Sven's site. Some of the sounds there were picked by Sven himself, I believe, so that's why I think we should ask first.
OK. I think he will give the permission - of course if he's supporting and updating his own site yet ;)
If not - there are few russian radio pack, countdowns etc. I don't know if there are on OH - if not - i have it in my archives and may send you.

@diogom - did you try my scn's? There are good?
 
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He has some posts there from last week, so it maybe won't take too long.
 
About the fuel usage yet....
Yesterday I testing Soyuz7k by 4throck and SoyuzTMA by Thorton. I think that the fuel usage like in Thorton's Soyuz is excellent. Even with non-economic trip to space station there is sufficient amonut of fuel to return to Earth. In 4throck's Soyuz - there is not.
If you will change fuel usage in your Soyuz like in Thorton's model - i think there will be good.

Or maybe I will work for this... if I will learn SC3 ini's coding ;)
 
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I've added that to the "to change" list. I'm planning on releasing aditional scenarios, a launch scn for Salyut 1, and Soyuz 6, 7 and 8 (though my plans for S6 are being destroyed by my really poor modelling skills, even with something as basic as removing a docking mechanism :facepalm:) . Also, I've been thinking how to redesign the 7k's orbital ops so it will fly only with one module, PAO, and not three docked together, that would make approach and docking easier, and also more fuel economic, because less fuel is spent on getting the rotation to 0 every time you translate it. Problem is, how to get the BO to jettison before the SA (instead of jettisoning and docking the modules after launch, that would only happen after de-orbit burn). Only problem is that it would have to launch with the antennas already deployed.
 
because less fuel is spent on getting the rotation to 0 every time you translate it.
Exactly. I forgot to tell you about this. IMHO intertia is too big. F.E. transfer from PRO to RETRO position spending too much time and uses too much fuel.
The Shenzhou addon has the same problem - and in this spaceship in Orbiter's implementation there are too 3 separate modules docked one to another - just like in your 7K.
 
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I've been busy in "real live simulator" for a while, so I have only now read all the latest posts. Sorry for the long post but I'm addressing several points mentioned.

sc3 implementation

The sc3 implementation is very limited by definition. I did it because we had the nice Soyuz meshes available and I decided that a VC would be nice. And that lead to a simple SC3 implementation. From that it grew into a more complete project.

I tried to get the correct values for engine performance and weights, BUT I've stated from the start of the development thread that they needed expert attention.

In theory, the 3 docked vessels is no problem, as long as the weights and center of gravity are right for each separate part... In fact, I used the Shenzou addon :) as a guideline.

The good thing is that it all can be corrected by editing values in Notepad.
But we NEED the right values and I don't know what they are (and don't have time to figure it out ;) )

As for going back to a single spacecraft configuration, you already have it before the initial module separation. Just remove the payloads and indicate a single mesh.

Conclusion: I think that the numbers do need to be checked and corrected by an expert. Also, sc3 configuration by attachment points instead of docked vessels is something to explore.


Parachutes, landing and realism / systems simulation

As for the parachute mesh, it's reused from the another addon and intended just to provide some sense of the landing sequence. It is not accurate in any sense.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to have an accurate simulation without programing a custom DLL. Even if I knew how to do it, I wouldn't have time to get any better results than these...

As for the scenarios, I only put in the general available parameters and dates. Salyut orbit might need to be adjusted to fit with the launch dates.


VC and sounds

Regarding the VC, I can improve the MFD integration (angles), specially on the Vizor simulation using camera MFD.
But I can't change the placement, because I'm using a 360º panorama photo. So the pilot must be seated on the place the photo was taken and NOT in the real cosmonaut point of view.
The alternative would be to do a full 3D cockpit mesh. If someone was the time to program it (integration onto a custom .dll so that it is fully functional), I will do it. But for now it's pointless.

As for sounds, it's just the way orbiter handles them. Each spacecraft makes its own sound. So you only hear the rocket if it is selected.
The 7K modules are already configured to play specific sounds, with the filenames matching the files on Sven's site. You just need to convert and put them in the right folder :)


Suggestions and updates

Your suggestions are noted, and improved configs and situations will be included on a future update. In fact, what we have is a WIP addon, much like a beta version. Perhaps Spacecraft3 to DLL converter might help here.
I'll investigate it, specially because of the EVA capability...
 
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Great to hear from you. :thumbup:
Well, for what I've tryed, the BO CTD's with the converter, and it doesn't even convert the PAO.
Indicate a single mesh? Is it like "Meshname:BO;SA;PAO" instead of just PAO with payloads? What I had in mind was leaving it as it is, but the BO would jettison when pressing J key, instead of SA. As always with any of my attempts on that stuff, I had some probs.
Also, we're still waiting for the -TM mesh, though of course I understand it's delay, and should take the necessay time to not interfere with Castor's "Real Life Simulator".
 
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