Poll Who was first?

[Urwumpe]

The big epic question...

Since we have an inflation of polls lately, this question always begged to be answered - and if it is just by monte carlo methods.

 

[C3PO]

The big epic question...

Since we have an inflation of polls lately, this question always begged to be answered - and if it is just by monte carlo methods.

Many animals were laying eggs long before the chicken evolved. :lol:

 

[Turbinator]

When you look at this logically and scientifically. And it really is the only way to look at this, the possibility is split right down the middle. There could have been a species that already laid eggs, that evolved in to the modern hen. Or here could have been a species that was mammalian that evolved in to an egg laying hen. However, we already know that the modern hen evolved from a long series of oviparous species.

I really dislike how people use this question as a pretence to discus something completely unrelated. There is only one way to look at this question, and it is with a logical reasoning mind. Not with a subterfuge to discuss religion, or some non-existent deeper spiritual meaning.

 

[Grover]

well, its probably subjective:

it comes down to the fact that at one point, the species "Chicken" will have passed the point from its predecessor [species], to what we consider to be its modern species

so it depends, when the "First Chicken" hatched, did it hatch from a Hen's egg, or an egg from its previous species?

i think that makes it the Hen that was first, since the mutation that defined that bird as a Hen (and not its predecessor species) would still leave the formation of the eggshell down to the parent's genes, which are not those of a Chicken.

so even though it hatched from an egg, its not a Hen's egg, is it? it just has a hen in it for the first time in history

BUT do we mean an egg in general terms, or do we mean a chicken egg? that turns it all on its head, because eggs were probably around for a long time before chickens....

EDIT: double :ninja:'d

 

[Urwumpe]

Many animals were laying eggs long before the chicken evolved. :lol:

How did these animals appear, if their eggs had not been laid by them? I say, it must have been the Great Divine Hen then! :lol:

 

[Turbinator]

And as a side note..... I selected the opposite answer of what I was going with. Whoops. :yes:

 

[xlns]

The big epic question...

None, I think it was a rooster. Then chicken. Then ... you know

 

[agentgonzo]

Where's the chicken option?

 

[T.Neo]

Neither. The theropod came first:

 

[FADEC]

Of course the egg. Where do you think did the hen com from???

 

[Columbia42]

Assuming we are thinking of the chicken egg and not an egg in general and assuming that we are thinking of the modern chicken and not any previous derivation thereof I would venture to suggest that the answer lies in when and how the most recent step of chicken evolution occurred. There could have been a previous rendition of the species that happened to lay an egg that was what we would think of as a chicken egg and this would have been the "first egg." There also could have been an egg of the chicken predecessor out of which hatched the "first chicken." So is a mutation more likely to happen in the laying of the egg or during the incubation period? Well I have no idea but I bet the all-knowing Wikipedia does. :thumbup:

 

[C3PO]

How did these animals appear, if their eggs had not been laid by them? I say, it must have been the Great Divine Hen then! :lol:

Read the question, and then read my post again:

Many animals were laying eggs long before the chicken evolved. :lol:

I've underlined the important part.

You really should know how things like this work at your age. :rofl:

 

[Hielor]

so it depends, when the "First Chicken" hatched, did it hatch from a Hen's egg, or an egg from its previous species?

i think that makes it the Hen that was first, since the mutation that defined that bird as a Hen (and not its predecessor species) would still leave the formation of the eggshell down to the parent's genes, which are not those of a Chicken.

so even though it hatched from an egg, its not a Hen's egg, is it? it just has a hen in it for the first time in history

The structure of the egg is, I believe, determined by the genes of the creature inside the egg, not the genes of the parent. That would make the answer definitely "egg," since in order for a chicken to have come from an egg, it must've been a chicken egg.

 

[DanM]

Even though it didn't exactly work this way, the generation before modern chickens were not modern chickens. So these proto-chickens laid and egg, out of which a modern chicken hatched. There, the egg came first.

 

[fireballs619]

If we were to pick defining characteristics that every chicken MUST have to be considered a chicken, and not some chicken-that-isn't, then there must be a spot in their timeline where one generation does not have these traits, while their offspring do. These semi-chickens would fertilize an egg, and since the mutations that would make the offspring after the embryo is fertilized and becomes a zygote, the egg comes first. A non chicken lays an egg that shelters a developing chicken, and is thus a chicken egg that developed without being laid by a chicken.

 

[DanM]

If we were to pick defining characteristics that every chicken MUST have to be considered a chicken, and not some chicken-that-isn't, then there must be a spot in their timeline where one generation does not have these traits, while their offspring do. These semi-chickens would fertilize an egg, and since the mutations that would make the offspring after the embryo is fertilized and becomes a zygote, the egg comes first. A non chicken lays an egg that shelters a developing chicken, and is thus a chicken egg that developed without being laid by a chicken.

Basically what I said, just in more advanced terms. :thumbup:

Of course, if you ask a fundamentalist, they would argue that God created chickens first, to lay the eggs. I sure hope most people on OF don't think that way.

Also, I have identified my proto-chickens as Gallus gallus, the Red Junglefowl.
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Junglefowl"]Red Junglefowl - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

 

[RichWall]

We need more information...Is it Breakfast time or Dinner time?

 

[walsjona]

If we look right back to the beginning an thought of the Primordial Hen and Egg question then it has to be the hen first!
The egg can only be created by creates that have the capability to create it in the first place.

So in otherwords the egg didn't simply come into being it had to be created by a parent that developt the mutation to create an egg and pass it on to its decendants and thus starting a never ending cycle which has sparked philosophical debates for centuries.

So in short a Primordial newly evolved Primordial Hen gave birth to a new idea called an egg which gave birth to a Primordial chicken (we don't know the gender at this point:thumbup

 

[Hielor]

If we look right back to the beginning an thought of the Primordial Hen and Egg question then it has to be the hen first!
The egg can only be created by creates that have the capability to create it in the first place.

So in otherwords the egg didn't simply come into being it had to be created by a parent that developt the mutation to create an egg and pass it on to its decendants and thus starting a never ending cycle which has sparked philosophical debates for centuries.

So in short a Primordial newly evolved Primordial Hen gave birth to a new idea called an egg which gave birth to a Primordial chicken (we don't know the gender at this point:thumbup

But where did that original hen come from?

A chicken egg.

Ergo, the egg came first.