Going up on the Moon when I was pushing down?

[usfup328]

This was a very odd thing that happened. I was flying my Delta Glider to the Dark side of the Moon and when I try to land there it started going up when I was forcing it down. I didn't have the hover on at all, the main engines were off, and the DG was only 400 ft. from touch down when this happened. How is it possible?

 

[Woo482]

What wear you doing ? if you wear just landing with all thrusters turned off that should not happen.

 

[usfup328]

The only thing I had on was every thruster on top at full throttle.

 

[Woo482]

was you aiming down at the moon ?

 

[usfup328]

No I was leveled.

 

[Woo482]

well I do not know what the problem is then unless hover thrusters wear on

 

[wehaveaproblem]

when you say 400ft from touch down, what exactly do you mean? where you on a 'collision' course with the moon in 400ft, or where you just 400ft above the surface? Also, what was your velocity at this time?

 

[Quick_Nick]

The only thing I had on was every thruster on top at full throttle.

You have thrusters on top?

Also, do you have Orulex/MeshLand?

 

[Zatnikitelman]

Did you have altitude hold on perchance?

 

[usfup328]

when you say 400ft from touch down, what exactly do you mean? where you on a 'collision' course with the moon in 400ft, or where you just 400ft above the surface? Also, what was your velocity at this time?

400ft from touch down basically means I was 400 feet from the ground that I'm landing on. I wasn't on a collision course; as I said before I was perfectly leveled. I was going Mach 90.46, but that does not matter since the Moon is non-atmospheric.

You have thrusters on top?

Also, do you have Orulex/MeshLand?

Yes. Yes and Yes.

Did you have altitude hold on perchance?

No, I had nothing, but the top thrusters on.

 

[TSPenguin]

Since there is no air on the moon, there is nothing to push you down.
You will follow your ballistic trajectory like in any other place in space.
Unless you fire your thrusters, your trajectory will not change...

 

[wehaveaproblem]

400ft from touch down basically means I was 400 feet from the ground that I'm landing on. I wasn't on a collision course; as I said before I was perfectly leveled. I was going Mach 90.46, but that does not matter since the Moon is non-atmospheric.

So if you were perfectly leveled, does that mean your orbit was ecc 0?
Also, you say you were forcing it down, how? you also say all your thrusters are off...

 

[Hielor]

What was your horizontal speed? I don't see how you had a Mach number in the first place, but if by Mach 90.46 you mean tens of thousands of meters per second, you were in orbit and rapidly flying away from the moon, so the translational thrusters wouldn't do peanuts to make you go down at that point.

 

[usfup328]

Since there is no air on the moon, there is nothing to push you down.
You will follow your ballistic trajectory like in any other place in space.
Unless you fire your thrusters, your trajectory will not change...

According to Wikipedia, the Moon has an atmosphere; the reason why we don't consider it to not have one is for a few things. 1) It cannot absorb measurable quantities of radiation. 2) It does not appear layered or self-circulating. 3) It requires constant replenishment due to the high rate at which the atmosphere is lost to space.

So if you were perfectly leveled, does that mean your orbit was ecc 0?
Also, you say you were forcing it down, how? you also say all your thrusters are off...

Yes my ecc was 0. The only way you apply downward force on a spacecraft. Not be mean or anything ,but I've said this so many times that I'm starting to get of it: I only had my top thrusters on at full all the other thrusters were off.

What was your horizontal speed? I don't see how you had a Mach number in the first place, but if by Mach 90.46 you mean tens of thousands of meters per second, you were in orbit and rapidly flying away from the moon, so the translational thrusters wouldn't do peanuts to make you go down at that point.

That was it Mach 90.46 and my speed was 16,476 m/s.

 

[Jarvitä]

That was it Mach 90.46 and my speed was 16,476 m/s.

I'll give you the benefit of doubt and assume you're not trolling. Don't prove me wrong.

A velocity that high means, pretty much, that you're not going to land on the moon. You may make a crater on it, but you're not landing. It takes a velocity around 10 times lower to hold a stable lunar orbit, and your ground velocity needs to be zero (with a vertical velocity tolerance of, one to three m/s depending on the spacecraft) for a sucessful touchdown. How on Earth (Moon?) were you planning on safely landing on the Moon with twice the Earth's orbital velocity?

No. Go read the tutorial, go read up on the basics of orbital physics, then come back.

 

[Linguofreak]

According to Wikipedia, the Moon has an atmosphere; the reason why we don't consider it to not have one is for a few things. 1) It cannot absorb measurable quantities of radiation. 2) It does not appear layered or self-circulating. 3) It requires constant replenishment due to the high rate at which the atmosphere is lost to space.

It also is totally useless for winged flight. Yes, there is a thin gas surrounding the moon, but it's so thin that for almost any purpose it counts as "no atmosphere."

Yes my ecc was 0. The only way you apply downward force on a spacecraft. Not be mean or anything ,but I've said this so many times that I'm starting to get of it: I only had my top thrusters on at full all the other thrusters were off.

Eccentricity of 0 means a circular orbit, which is inconsistent with your statement below:

That was it Mach 90.46 and my speed was 16,476 m/s.

The Moon's escape velocity is 2,380 m/s. 16,476 m/s (10 miles per second!) means you were travelling at a bit less than 8 times escape velocity. At escape velocity, eccentricity = 1, so your eccentricity was much higher than 1.

This shows why you were going up even though you were thrusting down. At such high speeds, you were travelling in very nearly a straight line because the Moon's gravity wasn't able to bend your trajectory downwards enough. Since the moon's surface is curved and your trajectory was pretty much straight, you were moving away from the surface, and the small amount of thrust from your downward thrusters wasn't bending your trajectory enough to make it follow the surface of the moon. If you had pointed your nose at the ground and applied full main engines it might have helped, but I'm not sure at that speed. The best remedy would be to slow down, especially if you were trying to land.

 

[Arrowstar]

Of course, we don't know what that velocity he stated was actually relative to.... We assume the moon, but perhaps it would be consistent with another body?

 

[Linguofreak]

Of course, we don't know what that velocity he stated was actually relative to.... We assume the moon, but perhaps it would be consistent with another body?

Too fast to be relative to the Earth (assuming his moon-relative velocity was low), too slow to be relative to the Sun, maybe Mars relative, but given that a high moon-relative velocity explains what he's describing (altitude gain that he can't control by thrusting downwards), and that he mentions a high velocity relative to something, I'd say that something is the moon.