New Sweet way to reenter?

[joiz]

awh ****. ok. umh, but its still feels slower for the ship right?

 

[garyw]

AHHHHHHH IM NOT!!! im saying what if we reentered in a way that allowed us to stay at mach two as the air is hugely thin in the upper atmosphere. and could someone please tell me how doing that is more dangerous than going through a furnace? maybe true about high aspect ratio wings giving extra weight.

Going through a furnace is safe compared to crossing a busy main road in a blindfold.

Everything has a risk. it's just how you manage that risk that counts.

 

[joiz]

is the allusion to crossing a main road in a blindfold a comparison to soft reentry? and another thing. ever heard of the JPaerospace blimp? 2WEEKS OF REENTRY BIZNATCH!

 

[ar81]

Thanks to the drag, all the slowing happened in the upper atmosphere and so there where no reentry flames.

Correct me if I am wrong.

If I understand it correctly, an entry with no flames takes longer, and it means the ship will absorb more heat that will be radiated from the heat shield to the hull and more time allows more heat to be radiated.

Space shuttle hull is made of amuminium, so its melting temperature is quite low.

In the end the result of an entry with no flames would result in a ship that is melting.

So shuttle entry is hot enough not reach heat shield material max temperature and fast enough not to allow too much heat to be radiated to the hull.

---------- Post added at 22:32 ---------- Previous post was at 22:27 ----------

Orion is for me the beginning of a new era of boredom. And it will take a while until the world will ever see something as capable as the shuttle again.

Shuttle can reach a max altitude of 1000 km and if I am right it can't make polar orbits.

So basically you have a LEO plane. Right?

 

[Andy44]

Shuttle can indeed make polar orbits. Was planned to do so before Vandenberg launch base got shut down in 1986. Discovery was planned to make first manned polar orbit.

 

[Urwumpe]

Correct me if I am wrong.
So shuttle entry is hot enough not reach heat shield material max temperature and fast enough not to allow too much heat to be radiated to the hull.

Yes, but you also have a insulation layer between tiles and aluminum skin. This layer is first of all for preventing heat from soaking quickly into the spacecraft (which has a melting point of 550°C, but gets soft already at 280°C), but also for keeping the tiles at the spacecraft, as it is not possible to directly glue the tiles on the metal skin.

Shuttle can reach a max altitude of 1000 km and if I am right it can't make polar orbits.

Maximal 650 km, but can do polar orbits from a launch site permitting polar launches - which was only Vandenberg. The payload penalty is huge then.

So basically you have a LEO plane. Right?

Well, a LEO spacecraft. The shuttle is a full spacecraft and a limited plane.

But the key problem you always have to solve is getting into space. All missions from Earth to the universe will need to get into LEO. A vehicle which is better in getting to LEO, is pretty useful, if you also mastered LEO assembly. And the Shuttle design is the best LEO assembly platform humanity has seen.

 

[garyw]

Maximal 650 km, but can do polar orbits from a launch site permitting polar launches - which was only Vandenberg. The payload penalty is huge then.

Which is why NASA was looking at filament wound SRB's

There was a lot of Shuttle upgrades planned but all of that was cancelled when the Challenger accident occurred.

 

[RisingFury]

The Shuttle is well suited for LEO missions and is designed to be fully reusable.

Ares/Orion will not be limited to LEO only, but you pay the price of not being fully reusable.

I think it's stupid to compare these two and judge which one is *better*.

 

[joiz]

Shuttle can indeed make polar orbits. Was planned to do so before Vandenberg launch base got shut down in 1986. Discovery was planned to make first manned polar orbit.

yes. with scarily thin SRBs and they allready had a tainted reputation, so balless NASA said no.

 

[tblaxland]

yes. with scarily thin SRBs and they allready had a tainted reputation, so balless NASA said no.

If I understand it correctly, filament wound SRBs don't have the one weak point that the segemented ones do - field joints.

 

[joiz]

well, i dunno, i guess i'll just trust the large group of really smart people at NASA to make all the smart decisions. they know more than me of course.

 

[Andy44]

yes. with scarily thin SRBs and they allready had a tainted reputation, so balless NASA said no.

Incorrect.

The USAF said no, because they could not rely on NASA's expensive toy to launch defense-related payloads.

 

[joiz]

Incorrect.

The USAF said no, because they could not rely on NASA's expensive toy to launch defense-related payloads.

in most likelyhood true. titans are not massively better though. and they're not as cool looking.

 

[Urwumpe]

in most likelyhood true. titans are not massively better though. and they're not as cool looking.

The Titan 4B was far better for the Airforce needs as the shuttle could have been.

 

[Peskie]

Incorrect. Maximum temperature on the tip of Concordes nose was 107 degress C. The nose rarely got about 80 or 90. The rest of the airframe was at much lower temperatures.

This is off topic but:
The maximum nose temperature of the Concorde was 127 C and this was what limited it's maximum speed. During normal cruise the nose did approach this temperature.

 

[joiz]

The Titan 4B was far better for the Airforce needs as the shuttle could have been.

heres one way the shuttle would have been better. pop it up, take some picks of those pesky soviets playing with their toys while they don't expect any keyholes to pass over and catch em "red" (getit?) handed trying to spread their communist evil!

 

[Urwumpe]

heres one way the shuttle would have been better. pop it up, take some picks of those pesky soviets playing with their toys while they don't expect any keyholes to pass over and catch em "red" (getit?) handed trying to spread their communist evil!

Ah ok. With a shuttle you mean? A platform on which you have more vibrations than in London Waterloo station?

This concept was cool before the first digital downlinks for spy satellites existed.

 

[joiz]

Ah ok. With a shuttle you mean? A platform on which you have more vibrations than in London Waterloo station?

This concept was cool before the first digital downlinks for spy satellites existed.

well, even with digital downlinks, the sattelites passsing over is still predictable and so you can hide it all when they go overhead.

 

[Urwumpe]

well, even with digital downlinks, the sattelites passsing over is still predictable and so you can hide it all when they go overhead.

And you really think the Shuttle has it simpler?

 

[tblaxland]

well, even with digital downlinks, the sattelites passsing over is still predictable and so you can hide it all when they go overhead.

And how is the shuttle passing over any less predictable?