Space Shuttle Atlantis to Moon - Great Fun!

[Clavius0712]

Hi all,

I had some great fun today in Orbiter getting the Space Shuttle Atlantis (stock ship, not Fleet) to the Moon.

I'd recently downloaded the IMFD manual from the Orbiter Hanger, which explained how to do a "Direct Ascent" to the Moon. This seemed the way to get there in the Shuttle rather than waste precious fuel building up an orbital velocity around the Earth, so I thought I'd give it a go.

I set the course in IMFD, switched to Burn View, and then waited for a suitable launch window. As I was pointing vertically upwards on the pad in the Shuttle, this meant one in which the aiming cross of the burn view was just above centre. That would mean I just had to pull back on the stick slightly as I launched to get into the correct heading.

Launch went smoothly and I was surprised at how easy it was to keep the cross in the centre. SRB separation came next, and then I was watching the fuel of the main tank to see how it was doing. It soon became clear I would not have enough fuel to reach the Moon.

Not wishing to admit defeat I used the Scenario Editor to top the tank up periodically until the burn was finished. I probably added about 50% more fuel in total - but I was now on the way to the Moon in the Shuttle! This in itself gave me a real buzz.

Now came the final test. Would the Shuttle's manoeuvre engines be capable of getting the Shuttle into a Lunar orbit?

Amazingly, they did, without any fuel top up. The orbit was very eliptical, with a periapsis of about 180km and an apoapsis of about 15,000km, but it was definitely in orbit!

Unfortunately for my intrepid crew, they would all be dead, as I burned every last drop of fuel to circularise the orbit.

Still, it was a lot of fun, and got me thinking that maybe in an emergency the Shuttle could have got to the Moon on some sort of heroic one-way trip. That's assuming the External Tank could somehow be made to carry a bit more fuel.

I may try different Tin times to see if I can get the fuel down, as presumably you would need less if you took longer getting there?

Anyway, this was great fun if anyone wants to try it.

 

[garyw]

Still, it was a lot of fun, and got me thinking that maybe in an emergency the Shuttle could have got to the Moon on some sort of heroic one-way trip. That's assuming the External Tank could somehow be made to carry a bit more fuel.

Nope. Real life shuttle is not designed for the thermal stresses of Cislunar space.

 

[RisingFury]

This seemed the way to get there in the Shuttle rather than waste precious fuel building up an orbital velocity around the Earth, so I thought I'd give it a go.

You wasted more fuel going straight up then going into orbit. You lost a hell of a lot of fuel due to gravity drag.

 

[Sky Captain]

You could also try to strap shuttle to much more powerful rocket. A Jupiter V should have enough power to get shuttle to the moon and back.

Nope. Real life shuttle is not designed for the thermal stresses of Cislunar space.

That might be solved by jury rigging some sort of sunshield out of aluminum foil.

 

[Clavius0712]

You wasted more fuel going straight up then going into orbit. You lost a hell of a lot of fuel due to gravity drag.

Good point. I hadn't considered this aspect.

To see what difference it would make I had another go since reading your post. The idea was to get Atlantis into orbit lined up with the Moon rather than do the direct ascent thing.

This time I used the Shuttle Fleet "Ascent Traj 1 and 2" MFDs to guide my ascent profile and performed a manual launch in the stock Orbiter ship "Atlantis", rolling to a bearing of 90 degrees as soon as I'd cleared the tower. This, I hoped, would put me in a relatively close alignment with the Moon's orbital plane. As I was doing a manual launch I was also able to make some manual adjustments using "Align" MFD on the way up to reduce the relative inc. as much as possible.

Using the Ascent Traj 1 and 2 MFDs (Item 15 to switch to 2) I managed to get into orbit with a good alignment with the Moon. Still not perfect but pretty close. I then used IMFD again to plot my course to the Moon. I managed to get the burn down to about 160 seconds, but still had to top up the External Tank by about a third.

Admittedly this is all rather absurd, not least because I am magically adding fuel once in orbit which should have increased the mass of the whole stack on the pad.

If I was to take this further, I'd need to somehow do the following:

1. Do it in Shuttle Fleet with the Item 777 Autopilot for a cleaner ascent profile. For this, I'd need some way of stopping the autopilot ditching the external tank, as I need it to remain attached for the TLI burn.

2. Somehow add the extra fuel to the stack on the pad. Presumably if NASA ever attempted this (I know, most unlikely) they would use the payload bay for additional fuel storage and maybe a modified and larger external tank.

I know this is all rather silly but I think it's fun to try out for some sort of far out fictional scenario. You know the sort of thing: e.g The survival of the human race depends on the Shuttle getting to Lunar orbit, maybe to rendevous with some alien probe or something!

If anyone knows how to stop the Item 777 program ejecting the ET, or how I could add more fuel - and mass - to the stack on the ground, I would be very interested. I might even post the scenario on Orbiter Hanger.

 

[TMac3000]

Maybe if you replaced the Shuttle's SRBs with Saturn Vs

 

[Jer95]

Maybe if you replaced the Shuttle's SRBs with Saturn Vs

Like this?

The saturn Vs are 350 ft!
Orbiter is only 100 ft The Saturn Vs are 3.5x taller than the orbiter! Compared to the SRB only 150 feet (1.5x the orbiter's height)

 

[TMac3000]

Like this?

The saturn Vs are 350 ft!
Orbiter is only 100 ft The Saturn Vs are 3.5x taller than the orbiter! Compared to the SRB only 150 feet (1.5x the orbiter's height)

Hot Dog:blink:!! Now that's the kind of propulsion I'm talkin' about:speakcool:
Too bad the force of the engines would probably obliterate the shuttle.

 

[ThatGuy]

Like this?

The saturn Vs are 350 ft!
Orbiter is only 100 ft The Saturn Vs are 3.5x taller than the orbiter! Compared to the SRB only 150 feet (1.5x the orbiter's height)

Looks like fun

 

[ijuin]

You'd have to attach the Shuttle ET to the S-IVB third stages, not to the S-IC first stages, or else when you jettison the S-IC stages the upper stages wouldn't be attached to the Shuttle any more.

By the way, one of the early Shuttle designs did have a Saturn V first stage used as a launch booster--the Shuttle External Fuel Tank was mounted on top of it where the S-II stage would be, and the Orbiter attached to the side of that. This idea was discarded when it was realized that SRBs would be cheaper and experience less POGO oscillation.

 

[T.Neo]

I once created a scenario for launching the default Atlantis to Mars using a Velcro Nexus as the first stage and Atlantis + ET as the second.
Granted, I had to refuel the OMS several times during my midcourse correction, but I'll put that down to my atrocious piloting.

I'm sure the scn could be easily reconfigured for a Moon flight (just time accel to the next launch window.)

BEGIN_DESC
Shuttle to Mars!
With magical air-startable SSME's!
END_DESC
BEGIN_ENVIRONMENT
System Sol
Date MJD 52795.0000000000
END_ENVIRONMENT
BEGIN_FOCUS
Ship Nexus
END_FOCUS
BEGIN_CAMERA
TARGET Nexus
MODE Extern
POS 2.37 144.74 -18.93
TRACKMODE TargetRelative
FOV 40.00
END_CAMERA
BEGIN_HUD
TYPE Surface
END_HUD
BEGIN_MFD Left
TYPE Surface
END_MFD
BEGIN_MFD Right
TYPE Orbit
PROJ Ship
REF Earth
END_MFD

BEGIN_SHIPS
STS-101:Atlantis
STATUS Landed Earth
BASE Cape Canaveral:6
HEADING 0.00
PRPLEVEL 0:1.000 1:1.000
NAVFREQ 0 0
CONFIGURATION 2
CARGODOOR 0 0.0000
GEAR 0 0.0000
KUBAND 0 0.0000
ARM_STATUS 0.5000 0.0000 0.0000 0.5000 0.5000 0.5000
SAT_OFS_X 0.000
SAT_OFS_Y 0.000
SAT_OFS_Z 0.000
; CARGO_STATIC_MESH Carina_cradle
; CARGO_STATIC_OFS 0.000 -1.650 0.050
END
Nexus:Nexus_Stage1
STATUS Landed Earth
BASE Cape Canaveral:6
HEADING 270.00
TGT_HEADING 095.0
FUEL 1.000
IGNITENEXT 0
CONFIGURATION 0
FAIRING 2 1.0 -68.5 0.0 3.0
CAMERA 0 0 60.0
SERIESBURN 0 STS-101 0.0 -3.3 -25.0 0.0 -1.0 0.0
PAYLOAD Fair1 NexusBigFg1 NexusBigFg1 0 0 12.5 20043.0 0 0.0 1.0
PAYLOAD Fair2 NexusBigFg2 NexusBigFg2 0 0 12.5 20043.0 0 0.0 1.0
END
END_SHIPS

Shuttles to (anything outside LEO) is total nonsense- but such missions are fun to fly nontheless.

 

[sunshine135]

All of this is quite fascinating. I wonder if there is some way that the shuttles could be refitted to allow for some other uses? It seems like a waste to me for NASA to just ditch a perfectly good system like the STS. Eliminate the ET and SRBs and replace them with a carrier aircraft and a more compact tank. Something similar to Greg Burch's BSP. You'd think someone could do it. Alas, it is easier for the government to throw good equipment away.

 

[Dambuster]

All of this is quite fascinating. I wonder if there is some way that the shuttles could be refitted to allow for some other uses? It seems like a waste to me for NASA to just ditch a perfectly good system like the STS. Eliminate the ET and SRBs and replace them with a carrier aircraft and a more compact tank. Something similar to Greg Burch's BSP. You'd think someone could do it. Alas, it is easier for the government to throw good equipment away.

Well according to this, there is a chance that they may keep the shuttle on a few more years:

http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/384767main_SUMMARY%20REPORT%20-%20FINAL.pdf

:speakcool:

 

[Sky Captain]

I gave it a try and configured shuttle for Lunar missions by velcroing 2 Saturn V s1c stages and 2 ordinary srb`s to the shuttle. When I reached Moon I still had enough fuel in main tank to enter orbit around the Moon and then used 50 % of OMS fuel to lower my orbit to 70 - 80 km altitude.
Crazy!!!

BEGIN_DESC
Space Shuttle in Lunar mission configuration
with 2 Saturn V s1c stages and 2 ordinary srb`s as stage zero.
At launch fire main engines at minimal possible power to save fuel
and go full power only after s1c booster seperation. 
END_DESC

BEGIN_ENVIRONMENT
  System Sol
  Date MJD 43589.7578
END_ENVIRONMENT

BEGIN_FOCUS
  Ship STS-101
END_FOCUS

BEGIN_CAMERA
  TARGET STS-101
  MODE Extern
  POS 2.74 -0.42 -98.15
  TRACKMODE TargetRelative
  FOV 70.00
END_CAMERA

BEGIN_HUD
  TYPE Surface
END_HUD

BEGIN_MFD Left
  TYPE Surface
END_MFD

BEGIN_MFD Right
  TYPE Orbit
  PROJ Ship
  REF Earth
END_MFD


BEGIN_SHIPS
STS-101:Atlantis
  STATUS Landed Earth
  BASE Cape Canaveral:6
  HEADING 90
  PRPLEVEL 0:1.000 1:1.000
  NAVFREQ 0 0
  CONFIGURATION 2
  CARGODOOR 0 0.0000
  GEAR 0 0.0000
  KUBAND 0 0.0000
  ARM_STATUS 0.5000 0.0000 0.0000 0.5000 0.5000 0.5000
  SAT_OFS_X 0
  SAT_OFS_Y -2.6
  SAT_OFS_Z 1.2
;  CARGO_STATIC_MESH Carina_cradle
;  CARGO_STATIC_OFS 0.000 -1.650 0.05
END
Booster1:Velcro/s1c
  STATUS Landed Earth
  BASE Cape Canaveral:6
  HEADING 90.00
  CONFIGURATION 0
  TGT_HEADING 90.0
  PRPLEVEL 0:1.0 1:1.0
  PRIMEBOOSTER 1
  CENTERTHRUST 1
  PARALLELBURN 1 STS-101 4.15 -3.3 -7.0 1.0  0.0 0.0
  PAYLOAD S1CHat1 Velcro/Parts/S1CHat Velcro/Parts/S1CHat 0 0 19.75 3500 0 1
  NAVFREQ 21 50
  XPDR 20
END
Booster2:Velcro/s1c
  STATUS Landed Earth
  BASE Cape Canaveral:6
  HEADING 90.00
  CONFIGURATION 0
  TGT_HEADING 90.0
  PRPLEVEL 0:1.0 1:1.0
  PRIMEBOOSTER 0
  CENTERTHRUST 1
  PARALLELBURN 1 STS-101 -4.15 -3.3 -7.0 -1.0  0.0 0.0
  PAYLOAD S1CHat1 Velcro/Parts/S1CHat Velcro/Parts/S1CHat 0 0 19.75 3500 0 1
  NAVFREQ 21 50
  XPDR 20
END
Booster3:Velcro/RSRM
  STATUS Landed Earth
  BASE Cape Canaveral:6
  HEADING 90.00
  CONFIGURATION 0
  TGT_HEADING 90.0
  PRPLEVEL 0:1.0 1:1.0
  PRIMEBOOSTER 0
  CENTERTHRUST 1
  PARALLELBURN 1 STS-101 14.25 -3.3 -7.0 1.0  0.0 0.0
  NAVFREQ 21 50
  XPDR 20
END
Booster4:Velcro/RSRM
  STATUS Landed Earth
  BASE Cape Canaveral:6
  HEADING 90.00
  CONFIGURATION 0
  TGT_HEADING 90.0
  PRPLEVEL 0:1.0 1:1.0
  PRIMEBOOSTER 0
  CENTERTHRUST 1
  PARALLELBURN 1 STS-101 -14.25 -3.3 -7.0 -1.0  0.0 0.0
  NAVFREQ 21 50
  XPDR 20
END
END_SHIPS

 

[daniash]

[ ]

 

[Wolfer]

If you want to attach other stages/boosters to the space shuttle, you'll need [ame="http://www.orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=3388"]Velcro Rockets[/ame]. And if you particularly want to attach Saturn parts you need [ame="http://www.orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=3389"]Velcro Saturns[/ame].

 

[doggie015]

Like this?

The saturn Vs are 350 ft!
Orbiter is only 100 ft The Saturn Vs are 3.5x taller than the orbiter! Compared to the SRB only 150 feet (1.5x the orbiter's height)

Hot Dog:blink:!! Now that's the kind of propulsion I'm talkin' about:speakcool:
Too bad the force of the engines would probably obliterate the shuttle.

Not in Orbiter, it wouldn't......

This has given me an idea for an entirely unrealistic, yet VERY COOL addon. Stay tuned...

 

[Hartmann]

Land would be impossible but it can carry a lunar lander in the cargo bay, at least like the old LK soviet lander

 

[daniash]

[ ]