Enceladus is the most habitable place after Earth

[T.Neo]

IF (Big if) there is life on Europa, it would as likely be as complex and diverse and that on Earth. Or at least there is nothing to rule it out.

Of course, there isn't anything to rule out the existence of complex life on Europa.

In fact, Europa might be a better environment for complex life to evolve then a planet like Earth, since the biosphere is sheltered under immense depths of water and ice, which means fewer dramatic climatic changes.

However, externally any such life would be extremely strange- it would probably resemble Earth's deep-sea vent communities. Eyes, if any would be small viper-like heat sensitive pits and organisms would sense their surroundings using sound or electrical impulses. Autotrophic organisms (that could be loosely equated with plants) would rely on chemical energy from the vents as there would be no sunlight in the Europan oceans.

 

[JamesG]

Europan lobster anyone?

 

[T.Neo]

:rofl:

Might not be so tasty- arsenic could be an intergral part of it's biochemistry.

 

[Andy44]

Being sheltered from all radiation is generally bad for evolution. That's why deep sea creatures look so primitive. Up here on the surface, moderate radiation has provided us with enough mutations to evolve.

Someday humans may have a third hand growing out of their foreheads, imagine the Wii!

 

[the.punk]

That life could be in the oceans of europa is an interesting idea as it is 2010. But then it would be intelligent I think.

 

[T.Neo]

Being sheltered from all radiation is generally bad for evolution.

You've raised an interesting point, although now it is thought that environmental stresses are more crucial to evolutionary change. Europa is unlucky in this regard, as it has very little or none of both.

That's why deep sea creatures look so primitive.

I'm afraid that's a total misconception- deep-sea vent creatures are quite evolved and complex. It's just that they look so alien, and not like land-living vertebrates.

I'm not suggesting we coud see herds of Europan Water Bison stampeding across the ocean floor. Even a level of life similar to Earth's cambrian or even pre-cambrian period would be an amazing scientific find.

 

[the.punk]

Also what is the reason that Enceladus is the most habitable place after earth?

 

[JamesG]

Some hombres down in Puerto Rico said so...

 

[Andy44]

You've raised an interesting point, although now it is thought that environmental stresses are more crucial to evolutionary change. Europa is unlucky in this regard, as it has very little or none of both.

Aside from radiation, which environmental stress causes mutations?

 

[eveningsky339]

Aside from radiation, which environmental stress causes mutations?

I do believe environmental stresses are more related to natural selection, but I could be wrong.

 

[Andy44]

That's what I was thinking. Radiation (amd maybe something else) causes mutations, while environmental stresses "naturally select" which mutations get to survive and thrive.

 

[RisingFury]

If we find living creatures on Europa... what do we call them? Europeans?

 

[Ghostrider]

If we find living creatures on Europa... what do we call them? Europeans?

Probably "Europans". Or we could rename Europeans to "People who live on the west end of Eurasia".

 

[T.Neo]

Aside from radiation, which environmental stress causes mutations?

Enviromental stresses don't cause mutations. Enviromental stresses assist the evolution of new forms by eliminating dominant groups and weeding out weaker individuals (i.e, if dinosaurs didn't go extinct, mammals would not have become a dominant group.).

It isn't only radiation that causes mutations. Age, "copying failiures" and certain chemicals can also cause mutations, AFAIK.

 

[RisingFury]

Most mutations are nor "good" or "bad". Most of them just don't bring any changes. But since the individual doesn't die of them, there's a chance he/she will pass those on. That way, a lot of junk DNA gets acumulated. Human body has a lot of it...

 

[JamesG]

It isn't only radiation that causes mutations. Age, "copying failiures" and certain chemicals can also cause mutations, AFAIK.

That is not the kind of mutation that causes evolution. In terrestrial reproduction at least, its the copy process where the telemeres mix randomly the DNA from the parent donors to create new variations in the embryo.

The harsh changes (damage) that radiation and chemicals make are almost always unfovorable and often fatal.

 

[Andy44]

That is not the kind of mutation that causes evolution.

Too broad.

 

[kneejo]

It's just that they look so alien, and not like land-living vertebrates.

speaking 'bout that.. did anyone ever notice that every conception of how aliens would look like can be found in the insect-, sea-life, and reptile/amphibian kingdoms? There's no imagination in science-fiction, just messed up memories of real-life observations..

---------- Post added at 04:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:42 PM ----------

Most mutations are nor "good" or "bad". Most of them just don't bring any changes. But since the individual doesn't die of them, there's a chance he/she will pass those on. That way, a lot of junk DNA gets acumulated. Human body has a lot of it...

Mutations that are unnoticeable on the outside, maybe.. but society still rejects 'freaks' (sad but true) so when they pro-create it will most likely be with 'one of their kind', as society likes to put it, and the offspring will be condemned to a life of social isolation. Since mankind has been killing each other, this has been the fate of any person that falls out of social context, because 'society' has been the dominant god, since we lost our link with God.

 

[T.Neo]

speaking 'bout that.. did anyone ever notice that every conception of how aliens would look like can be found in the insect-, sea-life, and reptile/amphibian kingdoms? There's no imagination in science-fiction, just messed up memories of real-life observations..

Generally concepts of alien life in science fiction are very unrealistic, compared to serious speculative works.

Then again, there is the concept of convergence, where similar life stratagies are used by totally unrelated organisms. So even though an organism may be totally... well, alien, it could very likely posess traits in common with Terran life.

 

[TMac3000]

Enceladus, hmmm...You guys just gave me an idea for my next interplanetary target:speakcool: