Problem Delta Glider IV-2 brakes

[mikes]

Hi

i'm new to this forum, but i flight orbiter for a half year. I mainly use DeltaGlider IV-2. Its great plane. Week ago i installed addon Overton Island. Everything works fine, but i have found strange beahavior of wheel brakes. I have edited the stock scenario with DG at Overton Island - replacing stock DG with DGIV2. When i taxiing or simple braking after touch down, wheel brakes are two times stronger, so the deceleration is bigger then in others scenarios with DGIV2. When i load scenario DGIV2 at KSC, then go in to orbit and then deorbit and land on Overton Island, brakes are normal, so my question is, if someone experienced something similar. Instalation is fresh orbiter 060929 with orbiter sound, HiresKSC, Spike's Base Textures, DGIV2, UCGO and Overton Island.
Thanks in advance.

Hi

i'm new to this forum, but i flight orbiter for a half year. I mainly use DeltaGlider IV-2. Its great plane. Week ago i installed addon Overton Island. Everything works fine, but i have found strange beahavior of wheel brakes. I have edited the stock scenario with DG at Overton Island - replacing stock DG with DGIV2. When i taxiing or simple braking after touch down, wheel brakes are two times stronger, so the deceleration is bigger then in others scenarios with DGIV2. When i load scenario DGIV2 at KSC, then go in to orbit and then deorbit and land on Overton Island, brakes are normal, so my question is, if someone experienced something similar. Instalation is fresh orbiter 060929 with orbiter sound, HiresKSC, Spike's Base Textures, DGIV2, UCGO and Overton Island.
Thanks in advance.

Todays a made a small research, and i found that sometimes DG and DGIV2 brakes, sometimes i can press brakes key, and it simply didnt have any effect on deceletarion. So i simply run off the end of runway. If its related to fps, i got about 250 fps. So i dont know. It has nothing to do with addon Overton Island, the problem is elsewhere.

 

[Dambuster]

Hmm...firstly, to the forums!!

I honestly can't think of any reason at all why this would happen though...

 

[mikes]

I cant think too, why this happend. I come from a mission to iss, perfectly landed at KSC, and i stop DGIV in less than half a runway. In another landing i stopped at the and of the runway. In another landing a run off the runway, landing speed, touch down point and weight of DGIV were almost the same. Runway 33 at KSC is 15000 feet long, so its far big variety in efficiency of brakes . What is worse, i cant think up why.

 

[Dambuster]

Well I just tried it, and can't seem to replicate what you described. I noticed that with engines off, and full brakes, the deceleration of the default DG was a bit lower than that of the DG-IV2, but when I replaced a DG with a DGIV2 in the scenario, that didn't change the deceleration rate from what appears to be usual with the DGIV2...

 

[mikes]

Well I just tried it, and can't seem to replicate what you described. I noticed that with engines off, and full brakes, the deceleration of the default DG was a bit lower than that of the DG-IV2, but when I replaced a DG with a DGIV2 in the scenario, that didn't change the deceleration rate from what appears to be usual with the DGIV2...

The problem i have and i want to describe is, that both with DG and DGIV have the wheelbrakes not every time the same deleleration rate, from normal deceleration rate as you wrote to nothing deceleration, so pressing the brakes keys has no effect on deceleration of the plane. I cant find where would be the problem or circumstance which cause this, because i use almost stock orbiter with addons which use almost everybody.

 

[garyw]

Can you post a post landing scenario where you having the brake issues?

 

[mikes]

Can you post a post landing scenario where you having the brake issues?

Today i found that my issue with brakes is scenario independent. It is in all scenarios (mine or from others authors). I make small research. I landed at KSC at 06:20pm CT, brakes were okey. In the same scenario i landed at KSC at 1:00am CT, and brakes are almost ten times weaker then at first landing.

 

[mikes]

Otherwise here is the scenario for example. If you could test braking on the runway at 06:00pm and at 01:00am. For mine there is big braking difference, in the second time, brakes are very weak in my case.

 

[garyw]

On a landing where the brakes are strong what's your propellant level? What is it on a landing where the brakes are weak?

 

[mikes]

On a landing where the brakes are strong what's your propellant level? What is it on a landing where the brakes are weak?

Propellant level and overall weight of DVIV is amost identical 19 tons which accept autopilot at reentry into the atmsphere.

 

[dansteph]

Might be date dependant ? To check at least. See this bug:
http://www.orbiter-forum.com/project.php?issueid=200

Dan

 

[mikes]

Might be date dependant ? To check at least. See this bug:
http://www.orbiter-forum.com/project.php?issueid=200

Dan

Thanks for link. I check it. The problem is that braking is depend at least in my instalation of orbiter with the time. In orbiter i got average fps about 150-200. When i run orbiter in fullscreen with vsync on 60fps, brakes work properly everytime. But when i run orbiter in windowed mode, with no vsync and fps 200, there is problem with braking. But I dont know, if it is posible only due to time change, because if this can do time change with braking i cant imagine what can it do with orbiting or celestial mechanics. I dont recognize something strange in flight into orbit, or orbital maneuvers, rendevous or in lunar flight. Problem only with brakes.

 

[dansteph]

FPS change seem to affect also the "ground bug" so the date is a good candidate, small "jump" may have a big impact on the braking distance as wheels don't touch the ground every frame.

If all scenario have a 2001 date then it's not the bug, if they have 3-5 years difference or have a date far from 2001 it might be it.

I can't think about anything else, DGIV-2 use the Orbiter's braking function and there is absolutely no dynamic change in code.

Dan

 

[Dambuster]

Could it be that you were only holding down one of the wheel brake keys...unlikely, but I think I've done that before

 

[dansteph]

In this case DGIV would not hold the center line.

 

[jinglesassy]

the delta glider 4 has gear brakes? i thought it only had aero brakes i cant find anything in the documentation about gear brakes

 

[mikes]

FPS change seem to affect also the "ground bug" so the date is a good candidate, small "jump" may have a big impact on the braking distance as wheels don't touch the ground every frame.

If all scenario have a 2001 date then it's not the bug, if they have 3-5 years difference or have a date far from 2001 it might be it.

I can't think about anything else, DGIV-2 use the Orbiter's braking function and there is absolutely no dynamic change in code.
Dan

Its as you wrote, its feel like the runway is bumpy and deltaglider simple jump over it. Wheels beahaviour is like they dont touch the ground every frame, so braking is discountinuous. I also recognized that its also visible on flight path marker, as it in this case dances like hell over the center. In landing without this problem with braking, FPM is more stable and its also visible than the nose is going lower, as the front gear is pushed with bigger force to the ground.

---------- Post added at 07:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:30 AM ----------

the delta glider 4 has gear brakes? i thought it only had aero brakes i cant find anything in the documentation about gear brakes

In the documentation for DGIV is nothing about brakes, because wheelbrakes are mapped on comma and period key as usual in orbiter.



---------- Post added at 06:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:22 PM ----------

Today i made some deep research of this strange behaviour. In scenarios with date 2001 no problem with brakes. In scenario with date 2023 is this bug with brakes. Sometimes G load exceeded lights up in right small hud in DGIV. Its in situation when i only taxiing, so without any reaseon. In scenario with date 2120, plane simply make periodicaly small jumps on the ground and G load exceeded lights up. So this bug is almost the same as the bug on the Moon with date 3023. Shuttle-A jumps only a bit mooore.

 

[dansteph]

This bug happen of couse also with the stock deltaglider. You might add a "confirmed" here http://www.orbiter-forum.com/project.php?issueid=200 so we are sure Martin (hello ) have a look.

The problem is not only with Mmu or DGIV but render almost all ground operation buggy with date >20 years far to ref 2001. (and almost impossible with date >100)

Best

Dan

 

[mikes]

This bug happen of couse also with the stock deltaglider. You might add a "confirmed" here http://www.orbiter-forum.com/project.php?issueid=200 so we are sure Martin (hello ) have a look.

The problem is not only with Mmu or DGIV but render almost all ground operation buggy with date >20 years far to ref 2001. (and almost impossible with date >100)

Best

Dan

Dan, I thank you very much for your help with identification of this bug which affected all planes or rockets in orbiter when the date is far away from 2001. I recognized it for first time when flying your DVIV. I use DVIV most in orbiter. I must say that DGIV is outstanding piece of your work:thumbup:.

Best regards

Mike