Gaming What will happen to flight/space sims?

[ar81]

I have fond memories of games like Privateer 2, Independence War, Freelancer, Freespace and some others. There was a time when there were loads of flight/space sims.

But is this genre dead? Is there anything in the works? What do you think about the future of simulation?

 

[Ark]

IMO, the genre is dead. Hardcore sims in general are dead, there just isn't a market for them that justifies pulling development personnel away from the cash cow games that sell millions of copies. MW2 made half a billion dollars within five days of release. You can't even find sales statistics for Freelancer or X:3. Ten years ago, gaming was a pretty small group of nerdy people who liked heavily involved games that took a time commitment to play. Now, the game-playing population has exploded, and the vast majority just want to pick up a controller and launch a multiplayer shooter with a 5-minute learning curve and the exact same controls as dozens of similar games, and these people are willing to spend a lot of money on them.

So, why would a developer delay other games with massive appeal just to cater to a small group of fans whose sales would barely break even? A good example is the recent Silent Hunter 5. The controls and skill level were dumbed down even more from previous releases, and Ubisoft cared so little about the tiny market for those games that they released it in a nearly unplayable buggy condition AND slapped it with their horriffic copy protection that kicks you out of the game if you aren't online at all times, or if their server crashes or some rightfully pissed-off computer nerds DDOS it.

Nobody cares about sims anymore. Much like the internet, gaming has been dumbed down further and further as more and more of the general public gets into it.

 

[jinglesassy]

I agree the genre is dead but there a few pockets of life aka this little sim orbiter its very well alive and cant really see any reason why orbiter would stop existing(well maybe martin dieing and we can no longer run it when windows 9 comes out but thats bout it)

 

[Ark]

I agree the genre is dead but there a few pockets of life aka this little sim orbiter its very well alive and cant really see any reason why orbiter would stop existing(well maybe martin dieing and we can no longer run it when windows 9 comes out but thats bout it)

Stuff like this is probably the only place you're going to see real complexity in a game anymore. 90% of the current gaming crowd responds to simplistic or gimmicky fun, the hardcore enthusiasts just don't carry enough market share.

 

[ar81]

With simplistic you mean arrow keys, spacebar and enter keys. Almost like a screensaver... Right?

 

[Ark]

With simplistic you mean arrow keys, spacebar and enter keys. Almost like a screensaver... Right?

By simplistic I mean no more controls than can fit on your average Xbox controller, and nothing radically different from every other game out there.

 

[rucinter]

EVE Online is going pretty well and it's one on the highest ranked MMORPG since its launch.

 

[Ark]

EVE Online is going pretty well and it's one on the highest ranked MMORPG since its launch.

MMOs don't count. I always considered them to be lazily developed games because they rely on players to create any and all depth and story. Whip up an engine and interface and sit around collecting money every month.

 

[Hielor]

MMOs don't count. I always considered them to be lazily developed games because they rely on players to create any and all depth and story. Whip up an engine and interface and sit around collecting money every month.

The MMOs that actually rely on players for *all* content don't last long and aren't actually known by many people. MMOs that do well provide an very good framework/starting point for the players to work within.

 

[Ark]

The MMOs that actually rely on players for *all* content don't last long and aren't actually known by many people. MMOs that do well provide an very good framework/starting point for the players to work within.

It's still just a framework. Companies like Bioware actually go to the effort of hiring real writers and fleshing a game out with characters, a story, and a convincing and engaging environment. It seems cheap to me to cut out all of that and still charge full game prices for games that are clearly made to be worthless without the multiplayer aspect.

MMOs just go one step further and charge people every month for the privilege of using their cheap framework to deal with the same douchebags we all have to put up with in the real world.

Real people suck, I play video games to get away from them and escape into something more interesting, exciting, and engaging than real life. The same reason I watch TV, play Orbiter, or read a book.

 

[ar81]

I have heard that money allows to create greater and bigger scale products, driving innovation... the debate on corporations making software or people making it.

But it seems that money goes to simplistic games, while really complex products like Orbiter come from a no money realm...

What's wrong?

 

[Ark]

Money goes to where the greatest return on investment is. Currently, that's with multiplayer-heavy twitch shooters.

Not that I don't love an action game with lots of epic set pieces, visceral action, and so forth, but they're really displacing every other genre.

 

[ar81]

Money goes to where the greatest return on investment is. Currently, that's with multiplayer-heavy twitch shooters.

Not that I don't love an action game with lots of epic set pieces, visceral action, and so forth, but they're really displacing every other genre.

So it means that money is not the drive of innovation. If there is already a formula to make money, why bother yourself with innovation? So innovation exists DESPITE of money.

 

[Ark]

They do have to vary it up from time to time, you can only get away with releasing the same game over and over for so long. Except for sports games, of course.

Making a game used to be a smaller investment requiring a smaller number of people, so developers were more willing to work outside the norms and hunt for successful new markets, such as hardcore simulators enjoyed by the kind of people that latched on to computers early. Now, it's such a huge business and making a high-caliber game is such an investment that tremendous pressure is in place to stick to what's going to sell well. MW2 broke every video game sales record in the world, but if you actually play it there's little to no real innovation over previous titles. Everything has a fresh coat of paint, but it all plays the same. That right there should tell you how willing the gaming market is to shell out money for the same product.

 

[Hielor]

It's still just a framework. Companies like Bioware actually go to the effort of hiring real writers and fleshing a game out with characters, a story, and a convincing and engaging environment. It seems cheap to me to cut out all of that and still charge full game prices for games that are clearly made to be worthless without the multiplayer aspect.

MMOs just go one step further and charge people every month for the privilege of using their cheap framework to deal with the same douchebags we all have to put up with in the real world.

Real people suck, I play video games to get away from them and escape into something more interesting, exciting, and engaging than real life. The same reason I watch TV, play Orbiter, or read a book.

What MMOs are you referring to? WoW, for example, is not lacking in characters, story, or an engaging environment.

Moreover, a lot of the bigger MMOs give you a whole lot more playtime than single-player games do. Halo 3 has all of, what, six hours of solo gameplay?

WoW has easily over a thousand hours of solo gameplay, and you don't need to talk to anyone else if you don't want to. Will you be getting as much out of the game as you could be? No, but that's your choice.

Some MMOs (such as EVE, I believe) have "player-driven world" as a feature. That appeals to some people. If that doesn't appeal to you, avoid that type, but don't paint all MMOs with that same broad brush.

 

[RisingFury]

Ten years ago, gaming was a pretty small group of nerdy people who liked heavily involved games that took a time commitment to play. Now, the game-playing population has exploded, and the vast majority just want to pick up a controller and launch a multiplayer shooter with a 5-minute learning curve and the exact same controls as dozens of similar games, and these people are willing to spend a lot of money on them.


Nobody cares about sims anymore. Much like the internet, gaming has been dumbed down further and further as more and more of the general public gets into it.

Yea :thumbsdown:

Gone is the age of awesome games...

Even the sequels to awesome old games like Deus Ex were dumbed down. No more content, just shiny graphics...

Also... Command and Conquer used to be awesome. Red Alert and Tiberian sun were outstanding, Tiberium wars is still pretty good, but Red Alert 3? Pfft... there are no freakin' tanks anymore. It's all about special abilities... Cryo copters and shrink beams! It's what I've always wanted!

 

[mjessick]

If you have a niche market subject, you can build up the massive investment in the art assets required by modern buyers over time, but it costs a lot, relatively, for a small studio... so you go to MMO style monthly payments. You need compelling gameplay and/or exacting hard core simulation features to make the product interesting enough to hold player interest over the long term you need to make back the investment. This has been done in WW-II flight sims, and racing sim niches.

 

[Urwumpe]

How often will people complain about Genres being dead, before they realize that they are actually complaining about their own lives being dead already...

How many games of a complex category should be released every year? I am happy if I can buy one per year, more would be hard without more money and free time for playing them.

 

[Eagle]

Well in good news community space-sims remain strong in active development (and most are free!)

Off the top of my head:

• Orbiter :thumbup:
• FreeAllegiance.org (space sim deathmatch with basebuilding using wormhole connected sectors)
• wcnews.com (good old Wing Commander has several projects including Freespace mods which have good gameplay and excellent storytelling Check out STANDOFF)
  • Also Privateer Ascii Sector (rougelike), Privateer Gemini Gold (Vega Strike Mod).
  • Standoff (without a doubt super awesome) Standalone Freespace mod (you don't need Freespace).
• OOliete - Object oriented Elite

 

[Urwumpe]

What I dislike a bit in ASCII sector is that it doesn't much exceed the capabilities of Elite or VegaStrike (who does always for get this?) It is just a cute ASCII version of it so far, true Roguelikes rather replace graphics for more complex game play.