Anybody see this?

[Cosmos]

Anybody see this
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23715179/

Might be a step in right direction.

 

[Urwumpe]

Anybody see this
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23715179/

Might be a step in right direction.

"100 miles per gallon" or 2.365 liters per 100 km - Nice goal, but the rules should make sure that Volkswagen is not allowed to take part.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_1-litre_car

(235 mpg / 1 liter per 100 km)

But well, Porsche might like 10 million bucks extra for free.

 

[Bj]

"It's incredible that the Ford Model T got 25 miles per gallon, and many of the cars that we drive today get less,"

isn't that sad?

 

[Urwumpe]

isn't that sad?

Well, German Engineering (tm) not only has the 1-litre car, but also the 1 mpg car (ok, it does the mile in 14 seconds to get this economy). :rofl:

I don't want to drive to the supermarket with a Model T, when I have stored the water bottles for the family, I can't sit in it anymore.

 

[Donamy]

Make it fly, now that would be something.

 

[Cosmos]

"It's incredible that the Ford Model T got 25 miles per gallon, and many of the cars that we drive today get less,"


Yeah, blows me away. At this rate we'll get 100 mpg in the year 2500.

 

[pattersoncr]

"It's incredible that the Ford Model T got 25 miles per gallon, and many of the cars that we drive today get less,"

isn't that sad?

It's not sad. It's an illustration of the nature of engineering.
All of engineering is compromise.
Yeah the model T got 25 mpg. It also had a 20hp (15kW for you Europeans) engine and topped out at 40mph.
up until now, being able to travel comfortably at highway speeds and carry the whole family along with a weeks worth of groceries have been seen as more important than fuel economy.
Now that gas is routinely topping $3 per gallon that will probably change for some people.

Chuck

 

[Bj]

Yeah, blows me away. At this rate we'll get 100 mpg in the year 2500.

3000 :lol:

"It's incredible that the Ford Model T got 25 miles per gallon, and many of the cars that we drive today get less,"


It's not sad. It's an illustration of the nature of engineering.
All of engineering is compromise.
Yeah the model T got 25 mpg. It also had a 20hp (15kW for you Europeans) engine and topped out at 40mph.
up until now, being able to travel comfortably at highway speeds and carry the whole family along with a weeks worth of groceries have been seen as more important than fuel economy.
Now that gas is routinely topping $3 per gallon that will probably change for some people.

Chuck

Good point, but right now internal combustion engines are only about 20% efficient. Now because of price of gas, instead of increasing HP they should be developing better MPG and at the same time maintain HP. (increase efficiency.)

 

[pattersoncr]

3000 :lol:
Good point, but right now internal combustion engines are only about 20% efficient. Now because of price of gas, instead of increasing HP they should be developing better MPG and at the same time maintain HP. (increase efficiency.)

You're right. The problem is that you're just not going to get a whole lot more efficiency out of a car engine (it's actually significantly lower than 20%). Large, low speed diesels, the most efficient internal combustion engines in the world are only about 35% efficient.

Chuck

 

[Urwumpe]

You're right. The problem is that you're just not going to get a whole lot more efficiency out of a car engine (it's actually significantly lower than 20%). Large, low speed diesels, the most efficient internal combustion engines in the world are only about 35% efficient.

And if you improve the effectivity, it is also not always good. I remember the three-cylinder diesel of the VW Lupo had a critical design flaw - because it was made so effective, it needed too long to reach operational temperature. In the first colder winter, the engines did no longer start or even froze when standing too long on a traffic light.

I think the best you can do, is making the cars themselves better, not alone the engines. And maybe develop personal traffic capable gas turbines. These are much more effective as piston engines.

 

[pattersoncr]

...And maybe develop personal traffic capable gas turbines. These are much more effective as piston engines.

Efficiency on gas turbines is pretty low.
Their big advantages are high power to weight ratio, very quick startup (which gas engines already have) and very low maintenance. Which is why they make great aircraft engines even if they're spinning a prop rather than producing thrust (turboprops).

Chuck

 

[Urwumpe]

Efficiency on gas turbines is pretty low.
Their big advantages are high power to weight ratio, very quick startup (which gas engines already have) and very low maintenance. Which is why they make great aircraft engines even if they're spinning a prop rather than producing thrust (turboprops).

If I remember correctly, gas turbines can generate higher compressions with less losses. And higher compressions bring better effectivity.

 

[simonpro]

The Model-T was an absolute ***** to drive, apparently. It wasnt set up much like a car of today, and looks incredibly fiddly. Iirc, you had to keep your foot flat to the floor the entire time, else you stop dead in the middle of the road.:blink:

 

[MJR]

The Model-T was an absolute ***** to drive, apparently. It wasnt set up much like a car of today, and looks incredibly fiddly. Iirc, you had to keep your foot flat to the floor the entire time, else you stop dead in the middle of the road.:blink:

What would you expect from a car from the early 1900s? :rofl:

 

[simonpro]

A lot of other cars from that time period were much more user-friendly. They just cost more.
Just because something is 100-odd years old doesn't automatically mean it is tricky to use

 

[Urwumpe]

What would you expect from a plane of 1910?

Most European ones have not been really controlled by their pilots, while the Wrights had already the similar control we have today.

 

[Andy44]

Not at first. The Flyer series used a couple of control sticks instead of the familar control yoke or joystick we see today. People that build replicas of the earliest Wright planes have to re-learn how to fly.

 

[pattersoncr]

If I remember correctly, gas turbines can generate higher compressions with less losses. And higher compressions bring better effectivity.

If I remember correctly, gas turbines use much more excess air than other types of engines. Heating up all that excess air is where they take an efficiency hit.

Chuck