Flight Question Easy way to get to the Moon in a rocket

Pyromaniac605

Toast! :D
Joined
Aug 15, 2010
Messages
1,774
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Melbourne
Hey guys I'm new here but not new to orbiter. But I am new to actually trying to do things in orbiter. Well anyway onto the question.
If I had a fast rocket with enough fuel if I took off staying vertical and timed it properly could I fly to the Moon basically without doing anything?
If so how can i be sure to time it properly?

Darren

PS: Sorry if this seems a bit lazy but I haven't found a good set of tutorials that slowly increase your skill in flying with a low learning curve.
 
Getting to the moon is easy but you'll never get there by "aiming" at the moon and firing your engines. Give the Lunar Transfer MFD a shot. It has autopilots for getting to/from the moon. You can use it to learn the basics and then graduate to more advanced tools like TransX which can get you to other planets as well.
 
Getting to the moon is easy but you'll never get there by "aiming" at the moon and firing your engines. Give the Lunar Transfer MFD a shot. It has autopilots for getting to/from the moon. You can use it to learn the basics and then graduate to more advanced tools like TransX which can get you to other planets as well.

You can if you're willing to wait a while and uncheck limited fuel ;).
 
PS: Sorry if this seems a bit lazy but I haven't found a good set of tutorials that slowly increase your skill in flying with a low learning curve.
There is a playback tutorial already built in to Orbiter (I assume done by the good doctor himself though I could easily be wrong) called "DG to the Moon" which takes the default Deltaglider from Canaveral to Brighton Beach using only the default MFDs and tells you pretty much exactly how to do it yourself. That's about as easy as a lunar transfer is going to get. :thumbup:
 
As said above, you can always uncheck the "limited fuel" option.

But remember, in space there is no air to slow you down, the more you accelerate, the more you'll have to brake... Or you'll just have time to say a quick "hello" to the Moon before getting lost in interplanetary space :)
 
Firstly I am aware that this is a simulator.
Secondly I watched DG to the Moon but nothing sunk in, I can't remember a thing is there a text version of this?

Darren

PS: Thanks for the quick reply guys.
 
You can also see the annotation from the recording. Open the Orbier/Flights directory and look for the folder that has the same name as the scenario, "DG to the Moon" or whatever. THere will be a bunch of files, for each vessel there is an .atc file, an .att file and a .pos lile. Find the .atc file for the vessel that is active when the scenario starts (probably GL-01 in this case) and open the .atc file in any text editor - notepad works fine. In this file will be lines that start with a sim time, then "NOTE". what comes after "NOTE" is what gets displayed during the flight. It's a bit cluttered, but you can ingnore everything but the NOTE lines and read all the text.

One of the ways to lessen the slope of the learning curve is to learn different fligh stages seperately. First get competent at one thing at a time. You can start by learning how to get into orbit, and focus on that until you get decent. Then practice plane changes, and once you have that down try either rendesvous/docking or lunar transfer.

Most tutorials are targeted to a particular skill level. The tutorial that teaches you how to make your first lunar transfer won't likely be the one that teaches you how to optimize the transfer or perform a free-return trajectory.

Most tutorials also expect a minimum skill level. Most Lunar Transfer tutorials expect that you have some competency in launching into orbit, and LEO operations such as aligning planes and managing your Apo and Pe.

Lastly, having an excess of thrust doesn't make a transfer easier, in fact it can make things much more difficult. If you use for Delta Velocity than is needed you'll get there quicker, but it's no easier to plan and execute the ejection burn. Once yo get there you will need to lose a lot more velocity to be captured into orbit at the target, so it's more difficult to time the burn.

The reason that Orbiter has such a steep learning curve is because in order to be good with Orbiter you have to develop an understanding of the physics of Orbital Mechanics. You don't need to able to do the math, but you need to have a general idea of what the terms and numbers mean. This understanding will come in time and with practice. There are many tutorials out there, try as many as you can. Don't just check out one "Earth to Moon" tutorial, check out a bunch. Most tutorials are fairly specific to the exact mission as the tutorial and may not work for a different day or target. If you try a few of them you'll start to get a "feel" for what's the same in each, what's different in each, and eventually understand the basic theory - and how to adapt it to the current situation.

This understanding won't come all at once, but bits of it will come together individually. You'll have lots of "eureka" moments. Then the bits start to come together and you start to see a bigger picture, etc. Checking out many different tutorials, and reading threads here, will speed the process, but it's almost impossible for someone to give you this understanding. We can paint you the picture, but can't make you interperate it correctly. That's just something yuo have to get for yourself.

It's hard at first, so don't give up over a few failures. If you don't get a tutorial, set it aside and try another. Eventually you should come back to that tutorial and try it again - unles you've learned that the first tutorial wasn't very good! Start with tutorials that come highly recommended, such as "Go Play in Space" (which I beleive covers the DG to the Moon flight tutorial that comes with Orbiter. as well as some others such as "Smack Rescue"). It's a bit heady for beginners, but there are a few tutorials out there that are so poorly done that they could hurt more than help.
 
Also, there is some great tutorial videos from Thesnorklemonkey on youtube. Just search for Thesnorklemonkey and you are sure to find them. He has tutorials using AMSO (Apollo addon) to fly to the moon, as well as a Delta glider to ISS tutorial. He is even working on a Mars misson. I highly recommend looking him up. His videos helped me a ton with getting started.
 
The only way to really "play" orbiter is to sit down for hours upon hours upon hours and actually do it right there isnt any "lazy" way of doing things this is a simulator not a game. A good tutorial to start out with is go play in space located here: http://www.amcsorley.dsl.pipex.com/play_in_space.htm


You didnt make this game Dr.Martin Schweiger did.

You can't tell people that they cannot use it as a game.

I use orbiter as a game and i do everything the lazy way.

And there is nothing you can do about it.

There is nothing on martin schweigers site saying you can ONLY play it as a simulator.



Now ok dude to get a rocket to the moon is difficult
You will keep going around it if you do it that way.

You have to figure out someway to get into the moons orbit.

Or just use scenerio editer :lol:
 
You didnt make this game Dr.Martin Schweiger did.

You can't tell people that they cannot use it as a game.

I use orbiter as a game and i do everything the lazy way.

And there is nothing you can do about it.

There is nothing on martin schweigers site saying you can ONLY play it as a simulator.



Now ok dude to get a rocket to the moon is difficult
You will keep going around it if you do it that way.

You have to figure out someway to get into the moons orbit.

Or just use scenerio editer :lol:

If you only use orbiter as a game and do things the lazy way, then you probably shouldn't be giving advice. 'You have to figure out someway to get into the moons orbit.' is not very useful information.

I would also recommend Go Play in Space, as there is a section on lunar transfers in there. I used that my first time, and it helped a lot. There are different ways of doing so, other than what is described in Go Play in Space, but that is probably the easiest and most understandable way for beginners.
 
I can understand Pyromaniac605's position. I experienced some anxiety when I first got into Orbiter and couldn't figure out anything. It takes awhile for it to sink in that this sim is about discovery. It isn't about getting to the moon, it's about learning HOW to get to the moon. When you crash into a spaceport (like I did last night), it isn't a failure, it's the beginning of learning a better way. The strength of the Sim is that there are many, many different ways to accomplish a task.
(Time for a shameless plug :shifty:)
Here is my checklist for getting the stock Delta Glider from the cape into orbit and docked to the ISS. It is aimed at beginners. Starts out explaining it all and snowballs a bit as you pick up experience. http://www.stillmixtup.com/CC2ISS/CC2ISs.html
 
You didnt make this game Dr.Martin Schweiger did.

You can't tell people that they cannot use it as a game.

I use orbiter as a game and i do everything the lazy way.

And there is nothing you can do about it.

There is nothing on martin schweigers site saying you can ONLY play it as a simulator.



Now ok dude to get a rocket to the moon is difficult
You will keep going around it if you do it that way.

You have to figure out someway to get into the moons orbit.

Or just use scenerio editer :lol:
Well, using the scenario editor to do everything isn't fun either as a simulator or a game. :P

You don't need to be an expert on efficient transfers and free returns to get to the Moon, but you can't do it by pointing up and hitting the throttle, either (well, not easily anyway.) The easiest way really is to follow the tutorials already mentioned, even if you use sci-fi torchships.

Well, actually, you could try the [ame="http://www.orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=2711"]Laika Lunar Lander[/ame], in which you can get from Baikonur Cosmodrome to the Moon simply by pressing O. :hail::probe:
(Only works in Orbiter 2006)
 
There have been some tutorials made by people who don't know nearly as much as they think they do. These tutorials often give pretty bad advice that will make things harder for you. In some cases they give you instructions that will lead to failure half the time - and no idea how to tell which half they will work. Here are a few tips on finding good tutorials craeted by people who actually understand what they are doing.

If the tutorial tells you enable unlimited fuel for a short trip (ie, KSC-ISS in a DG) it's probably not very good. The DG has enough range to get from KSC to Titan with 1/3 of it's fuel remaining. If you can't get to the ISS, you are doing things wrong, and making it much harder than it needs to be.

If they tell you to use hover thrusters to do anything other than get of the ground when there's no runway, then they are showing you a very poor way to get into orbit. It's both easier and more efficient to use a better ascent profile, you will get into orbit easier and with less fuel - and make anything you do after that easier as well.

If they tell you to use a launch heading of 90 degrees for a KSC to ISS trip, or don't tell you how to time your launch, they are giving you poor advice. It's easy enough to tell someone to use AlignplanesMFD and launch at Tn = 300, and to use a heading of 42 degrees if you are near the Ascending node, or 138 if you are nearing the Ascending Node. This will get you into an orbit with a low RInc, making the plane alignment MUCH, MUCH easier - and doesn't waste a ton of fuel.

Beware of people who "don't know" things. If they make comments like "I'm not sure what this is, but it needs to be zero", or "I don't know what that stands for, but try to get it to 35k" then they probably don't know what they are doing, they just stumbled upon something that works, sort of, sometimes. Comments like "I haven't done this in a couple yrears so I'm remembering as we go" show a lack of preparation, and important things will get left out or just explained poorly.

If someone recommends a tutorial (especially one they have created themselves), do a tiny bit of research. If the referrer or author has a low post count that can be a bad sign. It's always good to click on the users name to get to their profile so you can get a list of all posts they've made. Look for posts on topics relevant to the matter at hand, and read them. Try to see if they know what they are talking about, and whether people (especially experienced pilots) seem to respect their advice. Ignore any claims of "Advanced" or Expert" status as there is no real measure - ANYONE can get the "expert" tag by setting it in their profile. Join date can also provide a clue, it's hard to get fluent in Orbiter without the advice and knowledge shared here - but there are some people who learned Orbiter before this forum started (this is not the original "official" forum - that one is dead) so on occasion a new member can be quite good, and members from when this forum started may not have learned much in a couple years.

Those of us recommending that you actually learn to do it in a good way (not just slop it out) aren't being "elitist" or "purists" or anything. It's just that we have learned that doing things "correctly" right from the start is actually easier than doing them "quick and dirty". Keep in mind that any poor methods and bad habits you pick up at the start will end up STEEPENING the learning curve, not lessening it. It's far easier to learn something right the firsttime, then it is to learn it wrong and have to relearn it later.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for straightening me out, Tommy. Wasn't aware my tutorials were stearing folks in the wrong direction. I'll be removing them from my site.
 
Cpt CryBaby: do not be discouraged from producing tutorials for Orbiter - I applaud anyone who is willing to make one. I have not had the opportunity to review your tutorial, so I cannot comment specifically, but look at Tommy's comments as constructive criticism.

For anyone looking to write a tutorial, it is important to not just explain what to do, but also why to do it, and when to do it. Go Play In Space is the benchmark in tutorials in that regard. If you are looking to write a tutorial and you can't answer those questions for yourself, asking on the forum here will get you good advice, and normally quite promptly. You can also publish a draft for other forum members to review - the great thing about that is you will often learn something new and unexpected :)
 
That's very good advice. I've been making a few hesitant attempts at a video tutorial for your Attitude MFD, but first I need to really know the what, why and when behind it (also a little bit of how, too.) It's taking longer than it did to learn to use the thing in the first place! :)
 
Back
Top