Launch News SpaceX Falcon 9 F3 COTS2+ Updates

[T.Neo]

What now? Dragon won't dock, it will dock, it won't dock, what?

Didn't NASA ok the docking to the station? Is Russia really that eager to flex their muscles in regard to the ISS? What do NASA and SpaceX say on this issue?

Or do we have to formulate conspiracy theories based on NASA's politics now... :dry:

 

[orb]

What now? Dragon won't dock, it will dock, it won't dock, what?

At the end of the RIA Novosti article:

Earlier Russia said it will not allow the SpaceX vehicle to dock with the ISS unless its safety is fully tested.

"We will not issue docking permission unless the necessary level of reliability and safety is proven," said Alexei Krasov, head of the human spaceflight department of Roscosmos. "So far we have no proof that this spacecraft duly comply with the accepted norms of spaceflight safety."

 

[T.Neo]

Who's rules of spacecraft safety? It wouldn't be allowed to fly and dock if NASA/the FAA didn't see it as compliant to safety rules. If Russia doesn't trust the American regulations it would be pretty annoying, as (as far as I understand) the US has to do essentially the same thing in regard to the safety of Soyuz.

The ATV and HTV spacecraft docked on the first go. Where was the non-docking rendezvous test for those vehicles?

Smells fishy to me, especially considering that these comments are made by Russia: Major Provider of Launch Services to the ISS. :dry:

 

[orb]

It isn't definite yet that Dragon will not dock. With the current change of COTS 2/3 demo to January/February everything can change and Dragon will be again safe for docking.

 

[DaveS]

RIA Novosti: Private U.S. capsule not to dock with ISS:

​

According to NASA, this article is incorrect

Sorry, despite @ria_novosti reports, a decision has yet to be made regarding the upcoming @SpaceXer test flight ISS. Incorrect article.

@NASA tweet

 

[Ark]

It isn't definite yet that Dragon will not dock. With the current change of COTS 2/3 demo to January/February everything can change and Dragon will be again safe for docking.

Wait, they got bumped to 2012? :facepalm:

 

[Tychonaut]

I suspect our Russian friends are feeling a bit testy after their proven resupply craft was smeared across the landscape by their proven launch vehicle. Thus the need to remind everyone of the size of their Schwartz.
Hopefully NASA will whisper soothing words in their ear and SpaceX can get on with things.

 

[orb]

Wait, they got bumped to 2012? :facepalm:

From Orbinaut Pete's article:

The delay of Expedition 30 is expected to result in SpaceX’s C2/C3 Dragon demo mission being delayed to January or February 2012, since the originally scheduled launch date of 30th November would result in a 9th December ISS arrival date for Dragon, a time when only one trained US crewmember would be available on the ISS, when free-flyer capture and berthing operations require two trained crewmembers.

 

[N_Molson]

I suspect our Russian friends are feeling a bit testy after their proven resupply craft was smeared across the landscape by their proven launch vehicle.

It is a proven rocket and a proven spacecraft. No other LV can compete with the number of successful launches accomplished. The only other unmanned cargo vehicles I know are the ATV and the HTV, and there have been so few launches that you can't even draw statistics.

I guess that this delay was expectable, since all the operations got delayed by roughly 2 months.

 

[Tychonaut]

It is a proven rocket and a proven spacecraft. No other LV can compete with the number of successful launches accomplished. The only other unmanned cargo vehicles I know are the ATV and the HTV, and there have been so few launches that you can't even draw statistics.

It's proven as much as anything in spaceflight is, but recent events remind us of how little that's worth when you're trying to reach orbit - the wrong thing fails and you wish you'd never even tried. I suspect the manufacturers and operators got complacent because of its good record. Now they're feeling embarrassed, and not happy SpaceX might upstage them by docking Dragon before they can get another Progress flying.
We can only hope cool heads will prevail in all countries, and the final decision will be made based on the facts, not egos.

If they end up unable to dock a Dragon because of lack of qualified personnel on ISS, it may work itself out anyway. SpaceX can still launch and perform a test flight of Dragon, gathering enough data to hopefully make everyone happy with docking on the next launch, and they can just point to the rulebook to explain why they can't dock this time.

 

[N_Molson]

I don't understand that theory of an "anti-SpaceX conspiration" that seems more and more popular. Things don't work that way. A flight like COTS 2/3 has to insert into a schedule planned years in advance. When there is an unexpected delay, like the failure of one of the world most reliable rocket (please note that the Progress-M has nothing to do with the incident), there's nothing you can do. And what failed is a sensor that cuts the engines if the flow is off-nominal.

A 2-months delay isn't a big drama, really... The russians will send a TMA in November and it's going to be OK.

 

[Urwumpe]

Who's rules of spacecraft safety?

Well, if its about the Russian Spacecraft safety rules, somebody of SpaceX should take a sledgehammer before final integration and hammer the capsule a bit, until it is properly pre-tuned by Russian engineering. :facepalm:

 

[Grover]

at the end of the day, the ISS needs a few craft ready to re-supply it (long term) and be ready to evacuate the crew.

the russians do indeed control the second part with the Progress (unless things have changed and im not aware) but if SpaceX CAN and WILL launch a better craft to re-supply the station, Roscosmos will be far better off.

understandably, they were unsure at first. i dont blame them, its fair to deny them docking if they arent sure about how safe the craft is, but they have to give a definitive answer soon, either a definite yes or a definite no.

if the dragon works as well as we'd hope, they it will end up docked, becuase the more available craft there are to maintain the station, the less chance there is of a catastrophic problem, and an end to the constant manning of the ISS (and it is so far never unmanned for an incredibly long time)

and anyway, i just docked a dragon to the ISS, so it clearly works

 

[Jarvitä]

It should also be noted, Dragon is the only unmanned re-supply vehicle that is designed to, and has, in fact, survived a re-entry. This means it could also potentially be used as a rescue vehicle, and, once it's man-rated, to transport the entire ISS crew in one go. The Russians' delaying SpaceX is obvious self-interest.

 

[orb]

Parabolic Arc: NASA, SpaceX Knock Down Russian Report on Dragon Not Berthing at ISS:

NASA and SpaceX have both knocked down a report by RIA Novosti that the Dragon freighter will not be allowed to dock at the International Space Station on its next flight.

{...}

 

[Turbinator]

I am with the Russians regarding this NASAs pet project SpaceX .

 

[Tychonaut]

I don't understand that theory of an "anti-SpaceX conspiration" that seems more and more popular.

I, for one, never suggested there's a conspiracy. Just people feeling upset because their rocket failed, leading to panic in the media about abandoning ISS to its fate. Understandably, they may wish for their competitors to feel their pain.

A 2-months delay isn't a big drama, really... The russians will send a TMA in November and it's going to be OK.

Most likely yes, and when the next Dragon is launched, it will most likely dock with ISS, and all will be well.

 

[Zachstar]

I do doubt for a second that there are elements in Russia's space economy that are doing their utmost to convince their superiors to delay SpaceX as much as possible. But I highly doubt its even a large portion of the agency.

 

[anemazoso]

I am with the Russians regarding this NASAs pet project SpaceX .

Booo. Give them a chance. The "Gun Club" as Stephen Baxter called NASA in the Manifold series has had a stranglehold on spaceflight for the last 30 yrs trying to justify the enormous cost of the Shuttle. The things that SpaceX is doing to the market by itself (without even fielding an operational system) is one of the best things to happen. Look at Boeing, they are honestly trying to compete with SpaceX and have so far made a lot of progress on very little money. In my opinion Boeing and ULA would still be trying to squeeze out welfare from NASA in the form of cost-plus contracts. And to top it all off we are probably going to get a man rated Atlas V out of all of this.

The fact is this whole commercialization process should have been started in the late '80 or early '90s but our political system wouldn't let that happen and it barely is letting it happen now (and not without a huge fight).

SpaceX, Armadillo, Blue Origins and the like are exactly what you get in the land of the dreamer and the home of the back yard tinkerer.

 

[orb]

Aviation Week: SpaceX, Roscosmos Cool Their Jets