News Panic on board Caribbean Airlines flight

[FADEC]

It's not lame anymore when it has to save your life though lol :rofl:

Well, actually one doesn't die just because the mask does not work / does not seem to work. There is in fact no record of saved lives due to using oxygen masks, and also not a record of lost lives due to missing oxygen masks.

The emergency descent will be performed by the pilots quite quickly. Healthy passengers which are in a good condition are able to withstand those few moments without problems. But it is uncomfortable for your senses and ears (whilst the use of an oxygen mask has no effect on the ears anyway). The oxygen system acutally is most important for the cockpit crew in the first place to keep their senses sharp and of course to prevent a "possible" blackout. Of course it is a security equipment on the whole to also prevent "possible" blackouts of passengers. But it does not really save lifes as long as the cockpit crew performs what they are trained for.

 

[ky]

I stand corrected.

 

[garyw]

At normal cruising altitudes for commerical aircraft blackouts are not possible they are guarenteed. It doesn't matter how fit you are you'll black out if you don't have supplemental oxygen.

 

[FADEC]

The reason most of the passengers get terrified when the planes do such manoeuvres is due to the fact that they do not know what the planes are capable of. The pilots of passenger planes are restricted to very gentle movements, due to passenger "comfort". However the planes themselves are engineered for and capable of extraordinary flight manoeuvres. You could barrel roll a passenger jet, and keep on flying. You could drop it down faster than a falling 10 ton truck, and shake it off like nothing happened. Given enough altitude, you could enter a tailspin stall and recover. You could lift off with a 75 degree attitude and keep on going (for a little while). You can make very sharp and snappy (for a jetliner) turns. And you could go in to a 90 degree bank and not drop out of the sky.

That's somehow true. Most people think that big passenger jets are like heavy and lazy whales. But they are not at all...

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26H-WzIe858&feature=related"]YouTube - ‪TAP Airbus A310 Low Pass Turn - Portugal Airshow 2007, Evora (Uncut HD Version)‬‏[/ame]

 

[Fabri91]

Rumor is that this particular captain did this take off in a similar manner to an F-104 (which were used until 2003 here), staying level to gain speed and then pulling up sharply.

 

[ky]

YouTube - ‪Alitalia take off md 82 Santorini‬‏

Rumor is that this particular captain did this take off in a similar manner to an F-104 (which were used until 2003 here), staying level to gain speed and then pulling up sharply.

I wonder how many G's that was.

 

[FADEC]

At normal cruising altitudes for commerical aircraft blackouts are not possible they are guarenteed. It doesn't matter how fit you are you'll black out if you don't have supplemental oxygen.

People should forget what they have seen in movies. You won't black out immediately. And you also won't be sucked out of a window like Goldfinger in case it breakes (and an astronaut also does not "explode" in case he/she becomes exposed to vacuum btw). Hypoxia and a resulting black out does not happen immediately. Not even at 30k or 40k feet. It happens quite quick above 60k feet.

In case the plane would continue cruising one would start to black out, if there was a rapid decompression. But the descent usually is initiated just within a few seconds once the cockpit crew realizes that the cabin pressure is not maintainable. Also, the oxygen system does not provide oxygen for too long anyway. It is just between a few and 15 minutes max., depending on the system.

As for the physical condition: people with heart diseases or lung diseases are more of a threat, of course. They can show symptoms of hypoxia already while flying even below 10k feet...

---------- Post added at 09:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:08 PM ----------

I wonder how many G's that was.

I believe no more than 2 or 2.5. This is the usual positive limit for most airliners (flaps and gear up).

 

[ky]

And you also won't be sucked out of a window like Goldfinger in case it breakes (and an astronaut also does not "explode" in case he/she becomes exposed to vacuum btw)

Those James Bond movies can sometimes(mostly) be misleading lol.

 

[Hielor]

And you could go in to a 90 degree bank and not drop out of the sky.

Not for any length of time--a sustained 90 degree banked turn would not be possible for an airliner.

 

[garyw]

Not for any length of time--a sustained 90 degree banked turn would not be possible for an airliner.

And impossible to do on any airbus - unless you were in direct law.

 

[FADEC]

Those James Bond movies can sometimes(mostly) be misleading lol.

But I especially love them because of such things :lol:

And impossible to do on any airbus - unless you were in direct law.

I nearly missed "any". There are two exceptions: the A300 and A310. They are both based on usual mechanical control systems. Fly-by-wire was first introduced on Airbus by the A320.

For other airplanes it might be possible to reach a bank angle of 90°, but not without losing a significant amount of altitude and enter into a quite rapid descent. I wouldn't try this below 20k or even 30k feet

---

As for the oxygen masks once again: I took a look at the TUC - time of useful consciousness (for the first time again for many years). At 28k feet it takes about 2 to 3 minutes until the pilots become unable to perform their tasks efficiently. At 40k feet it's up to about 20 seconds. And this does not mean black out. As a passenger I would be more annoyed by other hysteric and screaming passengers rather than worrying whether if I get oxygen or not. I don't have to fly the plane and the mask isn't really essential for my survival for such a relatively short period of time during which the pilots descent the airplane anyway.

The most frightening moment is when the masks actually pop out. Because nobody expects it and for the first seconds I guess most people are just perplex and start looking at each other (and some probably even wait for some announcements). I personally would stay quite calm and try to calm others in front or next to me, in case they would start to panic. It's very likley not going to be a serious situation of a threat but just a very inconvenient situation psychologically.

---------- Post added at 10:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:37 PM ----------

While we are talking about Airbus and "stupid" maneuvers, it might be interesting to watch singer and pilot Bruce Dickinson (who flies a 757 usually) "playing" with an A320...

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKBABNL-DDM"]YouTube - ‪Bruce Dickinson flies the A320‬‏[/ame]

 

[ky]

I would freak out with him flying.This is what I would do::leaving::bailout:

 

[garyw]

I would freak out with him flying.This is what I would do::leaving::bailout:

Which would be very daft. He is a QUALIFIED pilot and watching him during the take off roll on the video it's obvious that he knows his stuff, is passionate about flying and a very professional pilot.

 

[ky]

I know he's a pilot,he flew his old band,some soccer teams,hostages so I know he's qualified.

 

[FADEC]

I think Dickinson flies regularly like former Formula One driver Nikki Lauda also does. They are more qualified than John Travolta by the way, who has got just a private pilot licence. Travolta only is allowed to fly his 707 because it's non-commercial private flights. With a private pilot licence you actually can fly almost anything as long as it is your private enjoyment

I like watching Lauda in the Cockpit who usually is only know from interviews to most people. And he even has got type ratings for both, Airbus and Boeing. What a lucky Especially because he does not even have to give a damn on wearing a uniform. Just always sitting there with Jeans and his cap :lol:

 

[garyw]

I think Dickinson flies regularly like former Formula One driver Nikki Lauda also does. They are more qualified than John Travolta by the way, who has got just a private pilot licence. Travolta only is allowed to fly his 707 because it's non-commercial private flights. With a private pilot licence you actually can fly almost anything as long as it is your private enjoyment http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfUA7YVuFpA

Wrong.

you'd still need multi-engine and IFR ratings to fly a 707.

 

[ky]

BTW whats the youngest age to get a pilots license?

 

[garyw]

It depends on your country. In the UK it is 17. You can fly before that as a co-pilot or for lessons but you cannot hold a PPL until 17.

 

[jedidia]

I heared in Australia you can get one pretty young. No Idea if that's accurate, though.

 

[ky]

Im in the U.S. ,so I don't know.I'll search it because my parents might let me do this.