Project Soyuz 7k.dll

[4throck]

100% support for the ideas!

Regarding telemetry, the only information I'm aware is http://www.mentallandscape.com/V_Telemetry.htm

It's related to unmanned missions, but some sites would have been used for Soyus mission support.

Regarding the docking AP and also ground stations, this might be useful:
http://www.svengrahn.pp.se/trackind/soyuz678/soyuz678.html

General detailed info about the 7K can be found on the ASTP documentation. There were modifications to the Soyuz for that mission, sure, but I'd use those values/data unless I had other.


Are you planning to do a Earth_Soyuz config ? I wouldn't mind to help there, and to all those base files !

 

[N_Molson]

Yes, for the tracking stations idea we're are going to need a network of surface bases with predefined names, like "Moscow TsUP". :yes:

The idea is to use the "distance to base" as it works on the Map MFD to determine if the spacecraft is in range of any station. We should have decent coverage from South America to Kamchatka, but the "Pacific side, Australia & North America" should be the great divide (unless we make a "tracking ship" base, the USSR had a couple of them if I remember well).

 

[4throck]

Yes, there were tracking ships. I've read some info on those regarding the Venera missions, I think. So I'd assume that they were also deployed for manned flights. But from the tracking info in the Sven Grahn site I mentioned, most of the crucial mission phases seem to happen over the USSR.

OK, unless someone opposes, I'll start doing a list of tracking stations / control centers, names and coordinates. Then it will be easy to convert them to Bases !

»»»»»»»

Here's what we need: http://www.russianspaceweb.com/kik.html
With more info here: http://www.astronautix.com/articles/sovstems.htm

---------- Post added at 08:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:11 PM ----------

Ok, one of the possibilities is to consider the NIP network:

• NIP-1 - Tyuratam, near already existing IP-1 in Area 18 (also known as IP-1D);
• NIP-2 - Makat station (near the town of Guriev);
• NIP-3 - Sary-Shagan 3 (also known as v/ch 14045) on the western coast of Lake Balkhash;
• NIP-4 - Eniseisk in Western Siberia;
• NIP-5 - Iskhup;
• NIP-6 - Elizovo 6 (on Kamchatka Peninsula);
• NIP-7 - Kluchi (Barnaul);
• NIP-8 - Bolshevo (northeast of Moscow);
• NIP-9 - Krasnoe Selo 9 (near St. Petersburg;
• NIP-10 - Simferopol (Crimean Peninsula);
• NIP-11 - Cape Shartushalu near Tbilisi in Georgia;
• NIP-12 - Novosibirsk (Kolpashevo) in Western Siberia;
• NIP-13 - Ulan-Ude (east of Lake Baikal)
• NIP-14
• NIP-15 in Ussuriisk in the Soviet Far East near Vladivostok;
• NIP-16 in Evpatoria on Crimean Peninsula, which were built specifically to support planetary launches and entered service in 1962;
• NIP-17 in Yakutsk in Eastern Siberia;
• NIP-18 in Vorkuta in the Russian Far North to support space launches from Plesetsk, which both entered service in 1966;
• NIP-19 in Dunaevtsu in Moldavia;
• NIP-20 in Komsomolsk-na-Amure in the Russian Far East;
• NIP-21 on the Mt. Maidanak in Uzbekistan;
• IP-14 in Shelkovo, east of Moscow
• IP-41E in Semeiz
• IP-42E in Moscow
• IP-5 at Site 23 in Tyuratam

Ships:

• Bezhitsa
• Ristna
• Dolinsk
• Cosmonaut Vladimir Komarov
• Kegostrov
• Morzhovets
• Nevel
• Borovichi
• Academik Sergei Korolev
• Cosmonaut Yuri Gagarin
• Cosmonaut Pavel Belyaev
• Cosmonaut Vladimir Volkov
• Cosmonaut Georgi Dobrovolskiy
• Cosmonaut Viktor Patsaev

Airborne stations:

• 4 Ilyushin-20RT

Control center:

• Galitsino-2 control center, located in the town of Krasnoznamensk northwest of Moscow

But not all of these were used for manned flight, IMHO. Let me check the link from Astronautix (with more detailed info) to see what I can piece together.

 

[N_Molson]

Great info, keep it on ! :thumbup:

I agree, I think that only a few ships were dispatched each mission, such a fleet was obviously an enormous cost, I was thinking there were only a couple of them :blink:

The airborne stations, while difficult to simulate, are an interesting fact too, I didn't knew about that.



"Hey, Dimitri, move on, you block my Vzor !" :lol:

 

[Przemek77]

There will be VC in this addon?

You may add the 4thRock's VC selected by F8 - like in mustard addons.
Just like that: Virtual Cockpit -> Vzor with all systems -> generic Orbiter view - selected by F8 key.

 

[4throck]

The VC was mentioned a few posts ago. It's ultimately up to N_Molson to implement or not a given feature, but from my perspective, the VC on the current addon only makes sense during reentry, after I've jettisoned the periscope. Untill then, the main view will simulate both the Vzor and instrument panels.

Also, because we are now simulating each module individually with a proper .dll (so that you can EVA for example), the VC will only make development harder. And you would need one for the Orbital module....

The focus now is on some system simulation, for now with text on screen. In the future, all that text on screen could be displayed in the proper panels (2D or 3D) but for now its not realistic (time, work involved, etc).

That's why we are keeping the "old" 7K-OK available in OH, because it's a more generic/arcade implementation of Soyuz. :thumbup:

_____________________________________________________________

Regarding all those tracking stations, I'm mapping them (about 10 so far) and I think some of them probably never existed at all. Part of my professional work is doing photo-interpretation, so I do know what I see on a satellite image. On some sites you can see that the structures were dismantled, but support roads and earth works remain visible. So when I see this close to an landing strip, It's a clear indication that "something" was indeed at that site. But on a few sites there's no base, road, or anything.
So probably they never got to build all those stations.
It's fun to track all of this in GoogleEarth but a little time consuming, so don't expect me to finish it quickly.

I also think that it's too much for a single spacecraft, BUT they had several flying at the same time (Soyuz, Salyut and Progress). So it is logical to have all that capacity.

What I'll do is just to map what I'm certain. For ships and airplanes, I'll use the tracking info on Sven's site and "guess". Even if we miss something, we can regard it as some sort of failure simulation (station X had a malfunction) :lol:!

 

[N_Molson]

What I'll do is just to map what I'm certain. For ships and airplanes, I'll use the tracking info on Sven's site and "guess". Even if we miss something, we can regard it as some sort of failure simulation (station X had a malfunction)

Yeah, the main point is to have a continuous tracking network over USSR, and some spots outside its boundaries. There were big holes in their communications network anyways. :yes:

 

[Grover]

so wait, you mean to implement a guidance system, based on whether or not the soyuz can be seen by predefined tracking stations? thats some pretty impressive coding! but will the less experienced users still have a free reign over the basic MFDs?

sounds good man, cant wait so see some solid results!

 

[Wishbone]

Regarding all those tracking stations, I'm mapping them (about 10 so far) and I think some of them probably never existed at all.

:blink: Which ones do you consider imaginary? The list looks pretty solid.

 

[4throck]

Never said imaginary. I said probably never build, because no trace of any suitable structure at the indicated sites is found, including traces of removal.
BUT i might just not be looking at the right place. These are large areas and antennas are not easy to spot, although military bases look the same everywhere.

Of course, the places listed are only the general area. For example, I'm identifying "NIP-10 - Simferopol (Crimean Peninsula);" here:
http://maps.google.pt/maps?q=44.970453,34.017414&hl=pt-PT&ll=44.96829,34.018478&spn=0.028571,0.066047&num=1&t=k&vpsrc=6&z=15 and just using the center city coordinates. But it could be placed closer to the airport(s) to the north, although that makes less sense if you want radio silence.

 

[Grover]

perhaps ships and/or aircraft were a temporary measure before the ground stations were built?

 

[Wishbone]

Are you looking at the right coords? My (limited) experience with Google Earth tells me it is hard to find things that may be 100 km off, roads or no roads.

---------- Post added at 01:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:20 PM ----------

Ships were a permanent measure... It is easy to overlook the fact that the USSR never boasted such a network of overseas bases as the US. Hence, it was necessary to have tracking and telemetry during critical flight phases.

 

[N_Molson]

Didn't they have one in Cuba ? Soviet tried to build an ICBM base there.

Edit : progress on the BO "airlock logic", to perform EVA you'll have to follow the correct procedure (close SA hatch, depressurize BO, then open EVA hatch). I'm thinking to a way to attach the EVAed cosmonaut, so that it would be possible to begin EVA inside the BO, even with EVA hatch closed & nominal pressure (the moment the cosmonaut seals his suit, before you begin to depressurize the BO). Shouldn't be that hard to do.



Edit 2 : VC is back

 

[castorp]

Edit : progress on the BO "airlock logic", to perform EVA you'll have to follow the correct procedure (close SA hatch, depressurize BO, then open EVA hatch). I'm thinking to a way to attach the EVAed cosmonaut, so that it would be possible to begin EVA inside the BO, even with EVA hatch closed & nominal pressure (the moment the cosmonaut seals his suit, before you begin to depressurize the BO). Shouldn't be that hard to do.

this got me thinking: i remember that, years ago, there was a "TetherMFD" and which it's still available at the hangar ==> [ame="http://www.orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=439"]TetherMFD 0.96 release[/ame]
...
granted its for v031217, and not having my orbiter install available i'm unable to try it out for myself, but i wonder a) if it's still compatible, b) whether it might be incorporated as a solution to a more "proper" simulation of EVAs, or c) if it's no longer compatible then if it might be replicated/updated within the context of the "BO airlock logic"???

in any event, 'looking great N_Molson!
weiter so!!
cheers,
hc

 

[4throck]

Are you looking at the right coords? My (limited) experience with Google Earth tells me it is hard to find things that may be 100 km off, roads or no roads.

Place names will get you close to almost all towns or even small villages. Some places I've looked up now have civilian airports, specially in former USSR republics. It's a reasonable assumption that the stations were located there. A landing strip is easy to find within a few KM radius of any town :thumbup:

edit:

I've found some solid locations for a few stations here: http://www.mentallandscape.com/T_NIP.htm

---------- Post added at 09:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:46 PM ----------

Here is my current map incorporating info from Don P. Mitchell site:

[url]http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=204551309079478027237.0004b025dd3f24d566e96&msa=0[/URL]

Enough for now, I'll check all those locations and active service dates latter.

 

[Przemek77]

[/url]
Edit 2 : VC is back

Thank you. It is important to me - with VC is more "old-feeling atmosphere", if you know what I mean....

What launchers will be used?

 

[N_Molson]

What launchers will be used?

A Saturn-V :lol:

Seriously, the R7-SZ is an excellent addon and will be perfect for the job.

 

[Przemek77]

A Saturn-V :lol:

very funny

Seriously, the R7-SZ is an excellent addon and will be perfect for the job.

The same like in igel's Vostok?

 

[diogom]

The same like in igel's Vostok?

Same in Thorton's Soyuz FG addon

 

[Grover]

Same in Thorton's Soyuz FG addon

a good choice!