Project Soyuz 7k.dll

[Urwumpe]

Yes I think that the reserve chute doctrine is "maybe you'll lose 1 tooth or two, but at least you're going to make it alive"

Yes, that sums it up well. The reserve chute guarantees a landing you can walk away from. In what shape you will walk away, is not part of the deal.

But Soyuz landings are generally nothing comfortable. A spoof TV ad had really the best description of it:

"What happened?" - "Earth happened!"

 

[N_Molson]

For the pilot chutes, do you think that something like that looks right ?

 

[Urwumpe]

Approximately yes. But there could be two pilots for spacecraft, I am not sure if Soyuz has only one, also the pilot chute is much smaller as the chute it deploys.

EDIT: Confirmed as two pilot parachutes for the main parachute system.

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/station/structure/elements/soyuz/landing.html

 

[N_Molson]

Huh, in fact, those are supposed to be the 2 pilot chutes... Or did I understand it wrong and are the two pilot chutes deployed at the same time, "a la Apollo" ? :hmm:

 

[MaverickSawyer]

I think "a la Apollo".

 

[Urwumpe]

Huh, in fact, those are supposed to be the 2 pilot chutes... Or did I understand it wrong and are the two pilot chutes deployed at the same time, "a la Apollo" ? :hmm:

Of course - your set up would make absolutely no sense. A pilot chute for a pilot chute for a drogue chute?

I am not sure if both pilots pull out the drogue chute, the drawing on page 69 in the Soyuz book shows it like both pilots deploy the drogue, the drawing on page 68 shows only one pilot for the drogue.

Two pilots would ensure deployment of the drogue even when one pilot fails to deploy properly.

 

[N_Molson]

Like that, then :

 

[Urwumpe]

yes - but much much smaller and closer to the bag that they pull out. (No long tether between pilot chutes and drogue chute bag)

 

[MaverickSawyer]

:hmm: Not quite. They should have their own individual lines to the capsule.

 

[N_Molson]

They should have their own individual lines to the capsule.

Doesn't look that way on the book. Maybe this size is more realistic ?

 

[MaverickSawyer]

That looks better.
BTW, what book are you talking about?

 

[diogom]

That looks better.
BTW, what book are you talking about?

See the link I posted.

 

[MaverickSawyer]

OK, Page 69, upper right. There also appears to be two really small (1-2m) chutes attached by a really short lead line to a small (~2m) chute on a really long line.
EDIT: These pull out the Drogue chute, which is fairly large (~4-5m).

 

[Urwumpe]

Doesn't look that way on the book. Maybe this size is more realistic ?

Still wrong - I think you mistake Drogue chutes with the pilot chutes again.

Maybe you understand it better when I talk to you like Dr Martin Winterkorn does to journalists:

1. The parachute container hatch is separated and removed by aerodynamic pressure on the spoiler lips.
2. The hatch pulls out the small parachute bags with the two pilot chutes
3. The pilot chutes are attached directly to the drogue chute parachute bag and pull the bag out of the container.
4. Each parachute bag operates roughly the same way. It permits both compact storage of the parachutes and secure deployment, by having the parachutes and lines packed into the bag by a precisely manner.
5. The parachute bags move first out of the container, deploying the riser lines - the actual canopy is deployed last.
6. When the drogue chute is separated, it acts as pilot chute for the main parachute and pulls the main parachute bag out of the container, which behaves exactly like the previous ones.

 

[N_Molson]

Yes, I don't get that part, and I'm not sure how to read the schema actually. I find the one p.68 easier to follow, and they write the order of the sequence :

1) deployement of pilot chutes (my last render)
2) deployement of drogue chute
3) deployement of main chute
4) full inflation of main chute

Edit : thank you Urumpwe, not sure the sarcasm is necessary though. Y'know, I'm doing that on my goodwill... I don't think I confuse the sequence : main chute hatch -> 2 pilot chutes -> 1 drogue chute -> 1 main chute (with -> meaning "extracts the bag of").

 

[Urwumpe]

Yes, I don't get that part, and I'm not sure how to read the schema actually. I find the one p.68 easier to follow, and they write the order of the sequence :

1) deployement of pilot chutes (my last render)
2) deployement of drogue chute
3) deployement of main chute
4) full inflation of main chute

Yes, but both drawings are not very exact. the p 68 one has the shape of the spacecraft better represented, the p 69 one has the sequence of things better (eg, deploying the parachutes reefed and unreefing the parachutes after deployment is complete)

 

[N_Molson]

I guess there are no photographs taken of those pilot chutes in action ? At 10km of altitude and given the speed, only a jet like a MIG-21 could have taken a shot, and the risk of collision with the capsule (or disturbing the chutes airflow) probably wasn't worth it ?

(I did an extensive image search on google and saw nothing but the main chute).

 

[Urwumpe]

I guess there are no photographs taken of those pilot chutes in action ? At 10km of altitude and given the speed, only a jet like a MIG-21 could have taken a shot, and the risk of collision with the capsule (or disturbing the chutes airflow) probably wasn't worth it ?

(I did an extensive image search on google and saw nothing but the main chute).

I think I saw pictures of the recovered parachute bags. Not sure if main or drogue chute bags.

 

[N_Molson]

There is that one about a drogue chute, but again its from a TMA and don't really help (apart from the fact that it seems silky-white with golden stripes).

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dazzlingplacesdotcomseattle/5758127039/

 

[Urwumpe]

There is that one about a drogue chute, but again its from a TMA and don't really help (apart from the fact that it seems silky-white with golden stripes).

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dazzlingplacesdotcomseattle/5758127039/

No problem there, the parachute did not change that much since Soyuz 2, but it needed a recertification after the TMA modifications... sadly the Energia article about the drop tests did not show much details there.

The test equipment they used and the tests, had been the same they used for all Soyuz models in the past.

---------- Post added at 11:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:28 PM ----------

here is one photo showing the drogue chute with the main parachute bag in the background of a landing soyuz:

http://spaceflightnow.com/station/exp28/soyuzlanding/index.html

Looks to me like the museum exhibit is actually the parachute bag for the drogues.