Science Science graduates 'lack skills needed by business'

Math and science graduates are the ones capable of doing a manager's job. It is in the manager's best interest to hire less skilled workers, who do not threaten his job. I am not surprised that managers would be less fond of competition. :2cents:
 
Disagree...

I understand the point you are making, but we must agree to disagree on this.

It may not be the case with all job markets (particularly the service related jobs), but here in our case, mindless robots cause nothing but trouble. I will agree that creativity isn't exactly a desired trait as a nuke-worker. Everything is procedure driven and deviation from said procedure can (and has had) result is Bad Things Happening. Or at the least, some undesired things happening...

Now if you can pass the EEI, go to our corporate site and submit a resume... We need talented people, and this is something that just cannot be outsourced. There's also fossil and hydro (but hydro is difficult to break into; hydro=gravy train).
 
I have to agree that many, perhaps most, employers aren't looking for innovation from most of their employees. This isn't to say that the CEO doesn't want it, it's usually someone farther down the food chain who fears smart employees.

Some of that is fear that they may get replaced by someone smarter, but often it's just laziness. They don't want to hear your idea because then they would have to think about it, or even implement it. That's extra work for them, and they aren't the ones who will benefit from the savings or increased revenue - they get paid the same anyway. It's only the upper management and shareholders who benefit.

Here's an example of a supervisor being afraid of an idea because it was better than his own idea:

I used to work in the paint room at a plastics factory. For those who aren't familiar with industrial painting of this kind, here's how it works. You have a "paint booth", which is equipped with "Quick release" air outlets. Some are "direct", connected to the main air tank (which was illegally set at 120 PSI). Others are connected to a regulator which can be adjusted. In this factory, the outlets aren't labeled, so you have to be able to decipher the plumbing to tell which is which.

Air is used to power the sprayer, of course, but it is also used to power the fixture. A metal mask - often two that work together to cover all sides of the part - is loaded into the fixture. A lever is moved, and air pressure closes the mask around the part, and in some cases also rotates the part so you can get all sides (rotation controlled by a foot pedal).

These masks are often a bit fragile - lots of open space with bits suspended by small rods, etc. They are designed to be used in the fixture at a maximum of 40 PSI. Using higher pressure is a good way to damage a mask, which leads to expensive repairs. It can easily cost $1000 to repair a mask, and the mask is out of service for days while that happens (mask making and repairs are outsourced to another company). That can obviously hamper production, you need at least two sets to run a job because the masks need to be washed every dozen parts or so.

We had a big problem with masks being damaged because they were run at high air pressure. Sometimes this was accidental - fixture plugged into direct air rather than regulated - because the outlets weren't marked. Sometimes this was deliberate - the fixture opens, closes and rotates faster so you can make yourself look good by exceeding the quota.

The Paint Room Supervisor had the idea to have two different sizes of quick-release. One size for Direct, another for Regulated. There would be two sets of air hoses with the different connectors, so a fixture could only be connected to Regulated air. This plan would have cost about $1000 to implement - new quick-connects and new hoses (since we now need hoses in two sizes, doubling the amount of hoses in inventory), and installing about 50 of the new connectors would take about 3 man-hours.

The problems with idea are two-fold. First, as anyone who has worked in a factory knows, sooner or later expediency will dictate that cross-over hoses be made. At that point it again becomes possible to connect the fixture to direct air by mistake. Second, the operator can adjust the booth's regulator, and turn it up to increase his rate. In short, this idea doesn't really solve the problem - it just adds confusion.

I provided him with a link to a company I had used before which makes a non-adjustable inline regulator, available in a wide range of PSI. They are easy to install, just unscrew the quick-connect from the fixture, screw in the regulator (it's only about two inches long and 1 inch diameter), then screw the quick connect into the regulator. We could have equipped all ten fixtures for about $500, and about 1 labor hour. No new connectors or hoses needed. No chance that the fixture could be over-pressured by accident or on purpose. No extra confusion - it's "transparent" to the set-up and operation.

The Supervisor ignored my suggestion in favor of his own, and was VERY angry when I took the idea over his head a few months later. The plant manager liked my idea a lot, and implemented it. He didn't have a problem with the Supervisor not having come up with this idea himself - he didn't care who's idea it was - only that it was cheap and solved the problem.

About three months later, the Manager told me that my idea was working perfectly, and that he wished I had come up with it sooner. When I told him I had, and had presented it to my Supervisor who decided to sit on the idea, he was quite unhappy. Supervisor lost his job (no, I didn't get that job - nor was I trying to), but not for failing to have the idea. He lost his job for ignoring the idea simply because it wasn't his own.

I guess the moral of the story is that what a company wants in it's employees depends on who you ask. The CEO wants smart, innovative people who provide ideas that improve efficiency, save money, and increase profits. A supervisor wants a robot who doesn't think, just does what they are told to do, and doesn't bother him with inconvenient things like ideas or safety concerns. The less the supervisor has to think about that employee the better.

The plastics company I mentioned earlier has taken some flak because they hire all their techs from outside the area. They complain that no-one around here has the skills they need. The local tech school has been trying for years to get this company to sit down with them and help tailor a program to provide the exact skills this company needs - but the company can't be bothered. All they would have to do is have one lead tech spend a half day listing the skills and equipment, but the company just won't make even that small investment. They just complain that the local tech school isn't providing them with what they want - and nevermind that they won't tell the school what they want.

It all comes down to unrealistic expectations, on all sides. Parents expect teachers to do all the educating and don't want to spend time helping their own children learn. Teachers expect parents to spend hours every night helping their kids learn stuff that the parent has long forgotten - or never learned in the first place. Students expect knowledge to be handed to them without them having to make any real effort to learn on their own. Businesses expect to find workers with the EXACT skills they need - but don't want to have to lift a finger to help ensure those skills get taught.

Everyone expects the impossible, so nobody gets what they need.
 
I work around a lot of engineers who can't spell without a spellchecker. I don't really know what to make of that. They do go to "universities" after all.
 
I work around a lot of engineers who can't spell without a spellchecker. I don't really know what to make of that. They do go to "universities" after all.

This is because there is often only one or two courses in an Engineering degree that deal directly with communication.

This is despite it being one of the biggest requirements of engineers in the work force.

At mine, it is slowing moving towards the non technical skills, but it is a slow path and you need to ensure you don't go too far the other way.

Of course one could argue that it is more important to get the right point across rather than spell every word correct. Though the latter does help the former.
 
...It all comes down to unrealistic expectations, on all sides. Parents expect teachers to do all the educating and don't want to spend time helping their own children learn. Teachers expect parents to spend hours every night helping their kids learn stuff that the parent has long forgotten - or never learned in the first place. Students expect knowledge to be handed to them without them having to make any real effort to learn on their own. Businesses expect to find workers with the EXACT skills they need - but don't want to have to lift a finger to help ensure those skills get taught.

Everyone expects the impossible, so nobody gets what they need.

I'm speechless. :tiphat:
 
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