General Question Ready for AMSO to the moon?

[Odahs]

I've completed the basic tutorials for Orbiter in the manual, some taking much longer than expected due to a lack of understanding etc! But completed none the less, followed by a bit of study of what all the new things I was learning meant.

I'm kind of keen to do my first moon trip in AMSO.

Is this gong to be impossibly difficult with so little experience of Orbiter, or should I just fire up that Saturn V and get on with it?

I've got the guides and manual downloaded, just wondering what other's experience of using AMSO was like and whether or not this is a feasible way to go.

 

[PhantomCruiser]

There is a work-in-progress manual that another Orbinaut is working on http://www.orbiter-forum.com/showthread.php?t=34308

Might help? Take a look.

 

[asbjos]

The good thing with Orbiter is that you can crash and die as many times as you want, and still not get bankrupt. That's the thing with simulators!

So if you want to, try a mission to the Moon now. If you fail, fly some more DeltaGlider's to the Moon, get more familiar with TransX/Transfer MFD/IMFD, practice landings with the hover engine, etc.
Then try again. And again. And again. And again, until you finish a complete Apollo mission.

Good luck and be sure to publish some pictures in the Orbiter Screenshot Thread when you get to the Moon!

 

[Deleted Orbinaut]

Is this gong to be impossibly difficult with so little experience of Orbiter, or should I just fire up that Saturn V and get on with it?

AMSO is actually pretty forgiving. As long as you know which key to press next, it kind of does most of the hard stuff for you (launch, landing, rendezvous), so it's really a great intro to Orbiter for new orbiters.

 

[Odahs]

Thanks guys, best get the MMU back to Atlantis and install AMSO ready for a trip to the moon :thumbup:

Guess how long it took me to figure I couldn't actually dock the MMU with Carina lol.

 

[sorindafabico]

AFAIK, you can do all the AMSO automatic, except for docking.

So, practice some docking and observe how the automatic flight operates (you'll need to press J or K keys when required), then try manual flight if you want.

It's good to have some knowledge in IMFD or LTMFD.

 

[Odahs]

I've installed AMSO but getting a bit confused. Let the AP take it into orbit. Thought I would practice docking with the LM in earth orbit.

Though the script Ctrl+J says that I can separate the CSM when I press J I get Abort Mission? flashes up at the bottom right. The CSM does though separate. I then dock with the LM - the script says J will separate the LM+CSM, however pressing it simply un-docks the CSM and the LM stays in place in the Saturn V third stage.

I'm confused! (Already). I guess I'm doing something out of sequence?

 

[jroly]

Thing I liked to do the most in ASMO is rendezvous, first when you attach the LEM to the CSM, and then again when you ascend from the moon. I never did it before, I then did some practice in the dragonfly attaching modules and then detaching. Then did it properly by going to ISS in the deltaglider.

To answer your question,

Start from 'Apollo 11 step 06'

Press J and the stage will blow it's cover to reveal the LEM.

Then dock with it, Press J and then you can use lin thrusters to pull it out.

I think your problem is you have not done the main burn to the moon which requires the stage which holds the LEM, you have to already have done the TLI burn before the script will let you do it.

 

[Odahs]

Thing I liked to do the most in ASMO is rendezvous, first when you attach the LEM to the CSM, and then again when you ascend from the moon. I never did it before, I then did some practice in the dragonfly attaching modules and then detaching. Then did it properly by going to ISS in the deltaglider.

To answer your question,

Start from 'Apollo 11 step 06'

Press J and the stage will blow it's cover to reveal the LEM.

Then dock with it, Press J and then you can use lin thrusters to pull it out.

I think your problem is you have not done the main burn to the moon which requires the stage which holds the LEM, you have to already have done the TLI burn before the script will let you do it.

Yep that all makes sense, started from Apollo 11 step 06 and was able to extract the LEM no problem, so would agree it was skipping the TLI burn that was causing my problem

 

[jroly]

Yeah the earlier sequences is where you can detach the CSM (and then the CM from the SM) from the 3rd stage for the abort window.

Apollo 9 however did unpack the LM in Earth orbit to perform tests on it and make sure it was space worthy.

 

[Odahs]

Yep I had the Apollo 9 mission in mind when I tried to unpack it before doing a TLI burn. At the time I hadn't installed IMFD or LTMFD so I skipped the burn! But starting from Apollo 11 step 06 I was able to practice docking which was nice and straightforward.

I've now re-started the whole Apollo 11 mission from the beginning listening to all the audio and using Shifty's guide for dummies. Did the TLI burn using LTMFD which seemed to come out right. Saved it with the LM+CSM heading towards the moon. Can't wait to get some time to get back to it today, as I'm really enjoying the AMSO experience. :thumbup:

 

[RonDVouz]

AMSO is actually pretty forgiving. As long as you know which key to press next, it kind of does most of the hard stuff for you (launch, landing, rendezvous), so it's really a great intro to Orbiter for new orbiters.

Where's the fun in that?

 

[Deleted Orbinaut]

Where's the fun in that?

Depends on how you take the simulation. It functions on a few levels. At the highest, easiest level, it does a bunch of stuff for you and allows you to try to get a feel for how the astronauts experienced the missions. You can see accurate views of Earth out the windows, experience mission audio and mission events in full context, etc. At that level, it's more a moderately interactive viewing experience than a simulator.

You can, of course, fly the entire mission manually. The autopilots are optional. (Though it's important to note that for the real Apollo 11 mission, launch, TLI, LOI, descent, ascent, and TEI were all performed by autopilot, though the astronauts did calibrate the platform and program the AGC with numbers from Houston.) If you want real verisimilitude, I think NASSP has a full, operation virtual cockpit (the AMSO one is largely cosmetic) with a working AGC.

 

[RonDVouz]

I take the simulation more seriously, I guess. I like to get the feel of all the tasks associated with spaceflight. I guess I feel if the computer does it for you that takes away from some of the realism about this sim.

Apollo 11 (as for all S-V launches) were automated but there was the ability to switch to manual control in the event the vehicle was doing something they didn't want it to do. In fact on the Apollo 11 lunar decent Neil Armstrong did take partial control of the LM as he was seeing a difference in the computer's flight path and where the vehicle was actually going. Sometimes the human brain is the best computer, for me all the rendezvous with ISS had me thinking so much more than a flight to the moon.

 

[Deleted Orbinaut]

In fact on the Apollo 11 lunar decent Neil Armstrong did take partial control of the LM as he was seeing a difference in the computer's flight path and where the vehicle was actually going.

AMSO simulates the improper landing site for Apollo 11 (it tries to put you down on the slope of a crater) and allows you to use a vertical velocity hold autopilot similar to the one used by Armstrong to complete the landing. (You control lateral motion with pitch and bank.) Or, for less challenge, you can just designate a new landing site. Or, for more challenge, you can fly the whole landing sequence manually with no autopilot.

AMSO also simulates random mission events like autopilot malfunction or high vibration or the Apollo 13 failure, etc. You have to respond to these problems in a timely and accurate manner. (Abort modes work and are accurately simulated.) And you can disengage any autopilot at any time and fly the mission manually.

 

[RonDVouz]

I still want to try AMSO.......but I haven't gotten the module to load properly.

But I guess that's another question for another day.

 

[jroly]

RonDVouz, NASSP provides more functions like using the sextant and the Apollo computer. I think that level of detail is too difficult for most people. I would be interested in knowing what people thought of the Apollo computer which they took time to learn for NASSP.

 

[Urwumpe]

RonDVouz, NASSP provides more functions like using the sextant and the Apollo computer. I think that level of detail is too difficult for most people. I would be interested in knowing what people thought of the Apollo computer which they took time to learn for NASSP.

I love old computers (though I find the old mechanic fire control computers of WW2 more fascinating there, especially the USA had been very smart there in their whole lifecycle process), and thus, I can enjoy using the AGC. Think of it like a better pocket calculator than a personal computer, and it makes more sense.

In fact: If you know how the TDC of a US submarine operates, the Apollo spacecraft has little surprises there for you. It does different tasks, but uses the same user interface approaches to solve the mathematical problems behind. Just don't mistake it for a modern desktop computer.

The verb-noun concept is at first a bit annoying to get used to, but if you spend some time with the computer, you quickly memorize the most important ones.

 

[jroly]

Thanks Urwumpe, interesting to know. I have used it before with NASSP, I did a few things with it but I didn't stay focused, but I really like the Apollo missions and will read anything about them, ASMO/NASSP I think gives you insight into the Apollo missions that otherwise is not possible.

 

[Urwumpe]

Thanks Urwumpe, interesting to know. I have used it before with NASSP, I did a few things with it but I didn't stay focused, but I really like the Apollo missions and will read anything about them, ASMO/NASSP I think gives you insight into the Apollo missions that otherwise is not possible.

Well, AMSO and NASSP are two simulations that look at the Apollo program from different angles, which allows both to be epic by themselves.