Discussion On Russian/US space relations

[dougkeenan]

Does it really look all that easy to some? One or another contender for the Lunar X-Prize could probably use help from those ahead in such knowledge.

 

[Thunder Chicken]

...I would suggest that maybe NASA just take bids to see who can build a LEO capsule system that can fly on an EELV (like they should've done for Orion), and pick the best one.

Well, this is the whole idea of the COTS program. If SpaceX can sort out their technical issues and stop making $20 million artificial reefs in the Pacific, that would fit the bill nicely.

 

[Moonwalker]

Imagine where we would be if we had built colonies on the moon instead ow wasting money on the shuttle and with the help of the Soviets started to explore the solar system.

Well, Wernher von Braun was thinking about going to Mars by 2000. But because of budget cuts and the end of the manned moon missions he was disappointed and left NASA still in 1972. In the same year the Shuttle program was defined. It seems he already anticipated that this is going to be a very long period of not going beyond low earth orbit. Also some engineers and astronauts left disappointedly during those days.

I would have left too for sure if I'd had been a NASA person. What we see these days, 36 years later, still is rather disappointing. The 1960's just was a period of luck. It was just the right people, the right president in the right time (scientifically and politically) at the right place. Today we have different people and especially different politicians. People, not able to decide something really. But that's just my honest point of view.

"NASA has lost focus and is no longer associated with inspiration. I don't think our kids are watching the space shuttle launches. It used to be a remarkable thing. It doesn’t even pass for news anymore".

That is how presidential candidates (Obama) talk today instead of specifying things. I don't think that he has any clue on manned space flight. Not even just because "I grew up on Star Trek", "I believe in the final frontier" (Obama).

 

[dougkeenan]

I don't think that he has any clue on manned space flight.

You don't see the irony here, do you?

 

[Moonwalker]

You don't see the irony here, do you?

I forget to mention that he is going to cut funds and delaying the new space program for years instead of giving NASA a new inspiration.

 

[dougkeenan]

I forget to mention that he is going to cut funds and delaying the new space program for years instead of giving NASA a new inspiration.

Best not to mention that which is not true. He went retrograde to prograde on that last week. It was in all the news.

 

[Urwumpe]

Best not to mention that which is not true. He went retrograde to prograde on that last week. It was in all the news.

Yeah, he does a classic election campaign... But I think he does it better as McCain... McCain does not say what he will do better as Obama, but he talks only about what Obama will make worse as Bush. If McCain wins, what will follow, when there is no political enemy inside the USA left? Find a new one outside? He would be comfortable inside the cold warriors club.

 

[Moonwalker]

Seems that Obama has some good advisors.

 

[Urwumpe]

Seems that Obama has some good advisors.

What any good politician should have!

Imagine McCain would have presented Kissinger inside his election staff - Obama would have had to travel to mars and find aliens to show better foreign political skills (after all, which foreign minister of the USA was ever as powerful and ruthless as Kissinger? Up to the point that he had the president following him.)

Damn, the republicans had really good personal inside their rows before the neocons took over.

 

[Spicer]

My wife told me about a cable-news report she saw in the last day or so. She said that the report had a number of NASA astronauts discussing extending the Shuttle Program until 2015, when Orion begins flights.

They said that because of the strained relations between US and Russia, Soyuz flights to the ISS for American astronauts may not be an option. Did anyone else see this report? Does anyone know where I would be able to find it?

 

[Jrquinlisk]

Yeah, I saw that. According to an interview with the Orlando Sentinel, NASA Administrator Mike Griffin isn't happy about it, but he is keeping his options open.

 

[Spicer]

Gracias!

That doesn't sound very promising. When the director was asked if there were any commercial programs which might be able to perform COTS...he responded with a flat "NO." Dragon X looking like a flop?

We will be "buying" soyuz craft from Russia? I thought there was some sort of agreement which designated at least one spot on the Soyuz for an American astronaut.

Aah...space politics. It's dirty on earth...just look how it's going to be in space.

 

[Moonwalker]

When the director was asked if there were any commercial programs which might be able to perform COTS...he responded with a flat "NO." Dragon X looking like a flop?

Griffin is right. Dragon X doesn't look like a flop but it looks like something which isn't going to leave the Earths surface any time soon. At least not within this decade. SpaceX has no experience with space flight yet. They still didn't manage to reach a LEO. They need to do this first, finish the Dragon X and test it as well. I don't see it lifting off manned before Orion launches...

 

[n122vu]

Space.com also has an article about Griffin's leaked email, here.

I had mentioned earlier (don't remember which thread) about the possibility of sending a malicious payload to the ISS should relations between US/Russia deteriorate further. While I said I don't think Russia would do this considering the stake they have in the ISS, I was shocked when I read the following:

"Practically speaking, the Russians can sustain ISS without US crew as long as we don't actively sabotage them, which I do not believe we would ever do, short of war," Griffin wrote. Space.com

What strikes me is the last part of that statement, "which I do not believe we would ever do, short of war." I take that to mean that should the situation deteriorate to the point that we would be considered at war with Russia, the US (and its allies) might take steps to sabotage part or all of the ISS (or Russia's access to it) to keep Russia from using it. This raises some interesting questions. Would they shut down the US-made power systems? (Griffin said they would not do this as a means to extort from Russia passage to the ISS aboard Soyuz, but what about as a means to keep Russia from using the ISS?) Would they prevent Russia by force from launching missions to the ISS, i.e. threaten to shoot down or disable any launched craft? Would the US go that far to shoot down an unarmed scientific mission? (I personally do not think so, but I feel the question begs asking)

 

[Belisarius]

One of the most comforting things about the sidelining of space exploration, in my opinion, is that it's out of the public eye.

Since nobody except a few space-visionaries cares much about the ISS (about 7 of 10 of people I know don't even know it exists) it is kind-of immune to the vagaries of political relations. I say "kind-of" because if things get really bad the treaty of co-operation might get torn up as a last diplomatic resort. I don't think we'll ever get to the point where the opposing sides are trying to sabotage it. Even the dreaded Putin-Medevev combo would never go that far. Only President Palin would do it. Let's all pray for John Mc Cain's health and well-being.

Jokes aside, I think the crews of the ISS will go on cooperating happily as long as the media forgets that the station is there.

 

[n122vu]

I don't think either side will sabotage the staition either. Let's hope we're right and things continue as usual untill at least 2011 (hopefully further). Maybe by then the US will have found another means of getting to the ISS.

 

[Andy44]

Silly to even speak of such a thing, and irresponsible of Griffin. The ISS is of no military or strategic value whatever, and in the event of a war what happens to the ISS will be the least of anyone's problems. And unless somebody completely loses his marbles, such an unthinkable thing will never come to pass.