A noob who is feeling very Dumb!

[WelshGit]

Hi all. I only found out about orbiter from the Rise of Flight forum last week. I love it! Have to admit though that I have had a nightmare with docking.. I've read about 4 tutorials (several times) but still couldn't make it happen. I went through 4 attempts.. starting from scratch each time figuring it would be good practice and that if I just got my Rinc to 0.0 and my Dtmin to 0.0 it must make it easier..It didn't. Then I realised my first error.. The tutorial I was using was out of date and the symbols had changed.. the docking hud had changed, The
-ve velocity vector is no longer a cross with a circle round it it's a dot with a circle..I was thrusting in the wrong direction. One down but I was still getting within a hundred meters and just floundering in space with no real control. Being a diehard flight simmer for many years I knew it couldn't be my joystick control... Could it? after a week of frustration I've just figured it out. I assumed that joy forward and back equaled thrust forward/back. It doesn't. Its up and down. I had no control of the forward/reverse thrusters whatsoever, which makes docking a bit difficult to say the least.:facepalm: oh well now to install joy2key and assign some buttons to num6 and 9. Then I'll have another go!

 

[Mantis]

Hi all. I only found out about orbiter from the Rise of Flight forum last week. I love it! Have to admit though that I have had a nightmare with docking.. I've read about 4 tutorials (several times) but still couldn't make it happen. I went through 4 attempts.. starting from scratch each time figuring it would be good practice and that if I just got my Rinc to 0.0 and my Dtmin to 0.0 it must make it easier..It didn't. Then I realised my first error.. The tutorial I was using was out of date and the symbols had changed.. the docking hud had changed, The
-ve velocity vector is no longer a cross with a circle round it it's a dot with a circle..I was thrusting in the wrong direction. One down but I was still getting within a hundred meters and just floundering in space with no real control. Being a diehard flight simmer for many years I knew it couldn't be my joystick control... Could it? after a week of frustration I've just figured it out. I assumed that joy forward and back equaled thrust forward/back. It doesn't. Its up and down. I had no control of the forward/reverse thrusters whatsoever, which makes docking a bit difficult to say the least.:facepalm: oh well now to install joy2key and assign some buttons to num6 and 9. Then I'll have another go!

Don't be too hard on yourself. If you are getting that close to docking after only a handful of tries, you are to be congratulated.

 

[PhantomCruiser]

Don't feel too bad. You certainly aren't the first to catch that. "Go Play In Space" needs an update, and Bruce has stopped by the forum several times, but since all this awesome stuff is free, we've all got bills to pay so sometimes progress is slow.

Welcome to the forum btw!

 

[N_Molson]

Welcome. Docking is one of the most complex of orbital manoeuvers, as it requires to know all the simpler ones.

 

[Evil_Onyx]

If orbiter was easy it would not be so fun, Planning is as much a part of orbiter than the flying, so think ahead and enjoy yourself.

Docking is possibly the busiest part of any flight, but as you master it (and practice makes perfect) it will become easier.

 

[Izack]

to Orbiter-Forum! You aren't dumb, you're just not yet informed.

I find the regular keyboard controls are most useful while in orbit, and use the joystick only for atmospheric control. Short, controlled bursts are needed for both rotation and local manoeuvring when in orbit.

 

[Cras]

I am gonna add something here. First off, learn how to rendezvous properly first. Dont just use Sync MFD to find any old intersection and shoot for that, paying not mind what direction you are gonna be approaching your target and what it is doing to your orbit.

Second off, keep your approach speed under control and don't go chasing the docking HUD around. You are gonna have a real rough day.

Third, be willing to try some MFDs that are not included in the vanilla Orbiter installation.

There is some very powerful MFDs out there that can feed you information making it easy to stay on top of your situation.

I see this 'Go Play in Space' recommended all over the board and then see people also say docking is the most complicated thing to do in Orbiter. I assure you, it most certainly not. It is not difficult at all. If you stay on top of your rendezvous and approach and don't just go cowboy mode up there, it is very very easy.

Just keep in mind when you are doing these things of what happens when your change your velocity, what happens to your orbit. That is why you just need to stay on top of it, and don't let the situation run out of control, and if it does....just let yourself float away and line up for another try in an orbit or 4.

If you wanna see one of the several approach and docking procedure.

http://www.orbiter-forum.com/showthread.php?p=292462&postcount=5

This is an old procedure that is good in that it will work for pretty much any vessel you may find yourself flying in orbiter. I have come up with some better procedures since that are even more fuel efficient, but this will get you there.

 

[WelshGit]

YEEEESSS! I DID IT!!

And it only took a week and 5 attempts.. You were right. leave the joystick alone when docking. the keyboard is much easier to control.. OOh and I beat Martin's fuel score.. Definitely a happy bunny! Now wheres the moon.. apparently its at perigee tonight!

 

[orb]

I see this 'Go Play in Space' recommended all over the board and then see people also say docking is the most complicated thing to do in Orbiter. I assure you, it most certainly not. It is not difficult at all.

That's very true. Even with only stock MFD modes, orbital docking is as easy as launching. I find atmospheric reentry and unpowered landing much more difficult, especially if it's the default Atlantis, but I've never used 'Go Play in Space' to fly in Orbiter, only read about orbital mechanics, so maybe landing is better explained there.

 

[PhantomCruiser]

Go Play in Space doesn't cover landing at all, but it does give initiates a decent baseline for getting along the learning curve. And a taste of some of the language of spaceflight (Rinc, PeA, ApA, etc.) It's sometimes hard to help people out when they ask what "this thingy" does.

Between that, prowling along the forums (with that handy-dandy search function), and asking (the right) questions, a noob has a lot of data available.

 

[tomthenose]

There's some good autopilots available from orbithanger!

Tsk tsk lazy i know but i've learnt a lot watching launch mfd and thruster control mfd do their thing.

 

[WelshGit]

Ermm.. I didn't actually use go play in space.. I read TUTORIAL: DELTA GLIDER TO ISS
By José Pablo.. Aimed at an older audience but still for beginners.. but it had some of the same diagrams. I can't bring myself to use autopilots (yet). Well apart from the attitude controls and killrot.. When I'm not flying orbiter I'm in a sopwith camel (one end of the ball park to the other) and I like a hands on approach. I dare say that when I'm ready to hit other planets I might consider it. And thank you all for welcome by the way. Its good to see an active community especially in a sim thats goes back 10 years!

 

[Gendo]

Hi WelshGit.

I'm a Orbiter noob too, and quickly found fine tuning docking is much easier with the numpad & ctrl key instead of my overly sensitive joystick. Hate to alter the joystick sensitivity since it's good where it's at for atmospheric flight, and rough rcs maneuvering.

Trying to deorbit Atlantis is the real pain. Just wants to skip off the atmosphere multiple times. Isn't 40ish degrees pitch enough? lol

 

[PhantomCruiser]

It's not so much the 40 degrees of pitch, it's the 90 (or more) degrees of bank-angle that you need.

 

[Cras]

Hi WelshGit.

I'm a Orbiter noob too, and quickly found fine tuning docking is much easier with the numpad & ctrl key instead of my overly sensitive joystick. Hate to alter the joystick sensitivity since it's good where it's at for atmospheric flight, and rough rcs maneuvering.

Trying to deorbit Atlantis is the real pain. Just wants to skip off the atmosphere multiple times. Isn't 40ish degrees pitch enough? lol

De-orbiting the Space Shuttle is one of the hardest things to accomplish.

Dead-stick landing any space plane from orbit is a tremendous task, but the Space Shuttle has so little room for error that is does take practice practice practice.

And as PC said, it is not just AoA that you have to concern yourself. The Shuttle did hit the atmosphere with a 40 degree alpha, however, this attitude would generate so much lift that it would bounce the Shuttle right off the atmosphere and back into space if left in that state, so what you gotta do is roll back and forth. Roll reversal, S-turns, these are terms used to describe this. You kinda rock the ship back and forth to maintain your path on the descent slope.

Of course the real thing is a bit more complicated then that, but in orbiter that is what you have to worry about.

There are some tings out there that will help you with this. I recommend Glideslope 2 heavily. It is a masterful MFD that provides a lot of good information for a dead stick de-orbit and landing of a space plane, including the Shuttle. It also has an autopilot that will hold your AoA for you as well as dampen your rolls so it makes the s-turns easy to control.

Good luck.