Project AIA Toehold Lunar Base

[wehaveaproblem]

Yeah, a jetbridge type affair will be the kind of thing I go for. I have one planned for the new launch structure at WIN actually. That way all you need is a docking port and you can UMMUFA. Or, hopefully, when I get the SC3 coded into a .dll, I can have it UMMU compatible.

---------- Post added at 06:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:40 PM ----------

more replies!

patterson, can you transfer ummu crew through an attachment? I thought you had to be docked?

tgep, that sounds great! Plus I love the name. Booting up google moon now to take a gander. Cheers!

 

[tgep]

tgep, nice thought. I shall throw it into my boiling pot of planning atm and see what it cooks up.


Is there a current tractor addon that can be used with all vessels?

This is the problem.
There are SC3 ground vehicles in OH that could be used for this BUT in order to make it universal, any ship you want to tow would need an attach point at the nosewheel area aligned for towing. That means that users would have to add these attach points to their vessel config files themselves.

The ideal solution would be a dll based Lunar Cargo Tractor with an animated tow bar that could hook up to a landed vessel ( or a wheeled cargo flatbed ) via attachments and pull them to the desired area. Users would still need to add nosewheel attach points ( by looking at the mesh to find the right location ) to any ship they want to make compatible with ToeHold Lunar Base ( TLB ). A custom call out such as TLB would prevent other attachment snafus since it would only work with the Lunar Tractor.

 

[wehaveaproblem]

tgep, the tractor sounds like a job unto itself I think. Although I may well decide to work out the needed additional attachment points for the man vessels that would likely use it. But I think I will aim to have the base usable under vessel power as well.

As to Playfair, it's down on the tropic of Capricorn, I think I will look for a site closer to the equator. But thanks for sugestion.

 

[pattersoncr]

tgep,
I agree about the usefullness of the tractor. As for the attachment points, Kulch has produced many add-ons that generate attachment point as they are needed (URMS, UCD, etc.) perhaps we need to enlist him to produce the tractor.
Such a thing would be usful on earth as well. Perhaps ther could be a lunar version with a pressurized cab and earth version that would look similar to the tractors used to pull aircraft around today.

WHAP,
I don't have a clue about UMMU mechanics but one of the folks involved with the Windmill Ramjet projected made some sort of UMMU transfer tunnel. Each end of the tunnel was connected a diffetrent ship. When you EVA'ed, the UMMU would transfer directly from one ship to the other. This might be a usfull starting point but I don't know if something like this could be used in the ground without the afore mentioned "bad crazyness."
On the other hand, the whole point of the jet bridge (rocket bridge?) is that you don't EVA. If you're not going to see the UMMU anyway, who cares if it's handled "correctly"?

 

[mjessick]

Runway stopping distances would be at least 6 times longer than what one is used to on Earth. It doesn't take very much starting speed to get into runway lengths measured in kilometers.

 

[wehaveaproblem]

Runway stopping distances would be at least 6 times longer than what one is used to on Earth. It doesn't take very much starting speed to get into runway lengths measured in kilometers.

I'll challenge your maths here, since it isn't a conventional landing, it's a VTOL landing. A longer landing pad/way just allows for a little roll-on when landing. Brakes will come into it, but it's retros and RCS that will actually stop you. You wouldn't actually use the runway like a conventional runway, since your rockets provide the lift, not aerodynamics. But like I say, it just provides some margin for error on final.


patterson, regarding the ummu. I have a feeling you would have to do an eva to outside, then one into the base. I don't think it is avoidable unless some UMMU can take place between landed vessels directly... there must be a workaround, but I can't code it.

 

[the.punk]

patterson, regarding the ummu. I have a feeling you would have to do an eva to outside, then one into the base. I don't think it is avoidable unless some UMMU can take place between landed vessels directly... there must be a workaround, but I can't code it.

You mean like Prelude base of DG-IV. It has such EVA function.

---------- Post added at 07:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:02 PM ----------

I'll challenge your maths here, since it isn't a conventional landing, it's a VTOL landing. A longer landing pad/way just allows for a little roll-on when landing. Brakes will come into it, but it's retros and RCS that will actually stop you. You wouldn't actually use the runway like a conventional runway, since your rockets provide the lift, not aerodynamics. But like I say, it just provides some margin for error on final.

Yes lift is only done by engines, but you're right that this runway should privide a (V)STO(V)L landing for some roll out and for errors.

 

[wehaveaproblem]

You mean like Prelude base of DG-IV. It has such EVA function.

I don't use Prelude, so scuse my ignorance... You can dock to the Prelude and UMMU straight from vessel to base?

If so, that's very interesting to know. I would need to find out how it is done.

 

[the.punk]

I don't use Prelude, so scuse my ignorance... You can dock to the Prelude and UMMU straight from vessel to base?

If so, that's very interesting to know. I would need to find out how it is done.

No. It has just what you said.
Go out from your ship with UMMU and walk to the airlock of the base. Then the decompression is starting and the inner doors can be opend.

 

[pattersoncr]

If we have a boarding ramp that attaches to your ship, there's no need to EVA. You just hook up the boarding ramp and say to yourself, "there, my passengers are now in the base." It only requires slightly more suspension of disbelief than what is already required while playing a space flight sim.

 

[PhantomCruiser]

The Prelude bases are vessels, with UMMU capability. But you have to recover on the landing pad, EVA from the (now landed) craft, and move (walk/float) over to the Prelude's airlock, and it (the airlock) has to be opened.
-dang- looks like we all answered at about the same time..

 

[the.punk]

If we have a boarding ramp that attaches to your ship, there's no need to EVA. You just hook up the boarding ramp and say to yourself, "there, my passengers are now in the base." It only requires slightly more suspension of disbelief than what is already required while playing a space flight sim.

But it is more fun to handle with these UMMUs and simulate this.

---------- Post added at 07:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:15 PM ----------

The Prelude bases are vessels, with UMMU capability. But you have to recover on the landing pad, EVA from the (now landed) craft, and move (walk/float) over to the Prelude's airlock, and it (the airlock) has to be opened.
-dang- looks like we all answered at about the same time..

Yes.

 

[wehaveaproblem]

Cool cheers chaps.

Patterson, despite the amount we have to pretend with Orbiter, you'd be amazed how many people want to actually swap names from one vessel roster to another! Therefore, UMMU is in.

 

[the.punk]

...you'd be amazed how many people want to actually swap names from one vessel roster to another! Therefore, UMMU is in.

Yeah. I'm one of these.

 

[pattersoncr]

Cool cheers chaps.

Patterson, despite the amount we have to pretend with Orbiter, you'd be amazed how many people want to actually swap names from one vessel roster to another! Therefore, UMMU is in.

Oh, I fully understand how cool it is to have a name disappear from one list and appear on another. I fully support having UMMU transfers. My point is only that the boarding ramp is how it would be done in "real life" and that if getting UMMU to work correctly with the it can't be done, the boarding ramp that attaches to the ship's hatch still ought to be developed.

 

[the.punk]

Maybe it could also be done it like in Prelude: Walk to the airlock.

 

[wehaveaproblem]

Maybe it could also be done it like in Prelude: Walk to the airlock.

Yeah, I think we have established that this is how it will happen.

 

[the.punk]

Yeah, I think we have established that this is how it will happen.

This is also cool.

 

[tgep]

That's how we did it with Mars Base Alpha.

A more equatorial location for your consideration .......

Crater Lade
Geological period:
Pre-Nectarian (From -4.55 billions years to -3.92 billions years)
Dimension:
58.0x58.0Km / 34.0x34.0Mi
Description:
Wrecked circular formation. Steep slopes to the North and non-existent to the supporting South Lade T and S to the West Lade X to the East and Lade U and B to the North. Few high walls gobbled to the South and ridden to the West by Lade M. Extensive flat floor filled with lava. Hill depressions and craterlets.
Position:
Longitude: 10.1° East
Latitude: 1.3° South
Quadrant: South-East
Area: East of Ptolemaeus crater region

 

[wehaveaproblem]

Cheers tgep, sounds great on paper. From my early explorations I think I will have difficulty getting a nice hi-res texture of s particular crater. I think I may well have to get creative and make my own, using whatever appropriate pics I can find. Although I may well use a fake version of a real crater... we shall see.

Out of curiosity, what resource are you using for these selections?

Anyhoo, I shall check out your latest suggestion, cheers!