amso 1.17

[richard1967]

Hi guys once again into the breach. Still having trouble with the navigation from the moon. Ive looked at the senario for appolo 11 AS.506 TEI burn. It uses the base approach in imfd 1 and orbit eject in imfd 2. My quiestion is this ive used this scenario many times and can get back to earth to splashdown how do you set the imfd for base approach from lunar orbit after a full mission. thanx in advance

 

[ryan]

God, i so miss LazyD, he could figure out that sort of stuff in a second.

 

[richard1967]

Yeh me too just wish i came to the forum sooner heard he was a nice guy. If any of the other peeps no of the solution i would be very gratefull

regards

 

[BigDAS]

I've not done this myself, but keep in mind that Orbiter is dynamic and planet positions are continually changing. If you've one a complete flight to the moon, you will have to correct for the current position of the Earth for the TEI.

 

[BlueDragon8144]

It's not that hard. There was a tutorial somewhere, but basically, set the TEI on both mfd's and move up the HINT till you get a GET close to actual splashdown.

 

[polaris149Tiberius]

AMSO IMFD Tutorial for TEI from Moon -(Edited)

Still having trouble with the navigation from the moon. Ive looked at the senario for appolo 11 AS.506 TEI burn. It uses the base approach in imfd 1 and orbit eject in imfd 2. My quiestion is this ive used this scenario many times and can get back to earth to splashdown how do you set the imfd for base approach from lunar orbit after a full mission. thanx in advance

To address your need, I have prepared a small tutorial for beginners to use with the AMSO ver1.17 add-onflights and using IMFD v5.1b -5.1g.

Enjoy!!


AMSO IMFD Tutorial for TEI from Moon -(Edited)

Notes: To make this tutorial, I made a trip to the moon in the default DG S to verify some terms and when following the Apollo 11 Timeline I posted in another thread on these forms, I was able to create this small tutorial for people to use IMFD to get home from the moon. I noticed that there was a serious lack of this data on this proceedure out there for people to learn from -hence this tutorial was created in very little time.

It was done by opening a DG S scenario that comes with Orbiter 2006 P1 and with no atmospheric enhancements of any kind. I then changed the date in Scenario Editor to July 16 1969 at 13:26:00 UT and then quick saved and then saved as the start of my flight. Then I re-opened the saved scenario in order to make the Sim ammount set back to 0.
Launch from Canaveral horizontally using the scenario:

Delta-glider/"DG-S ready for takeoff"

The Scramjet delta-glider (DG-S) is ready for takeoff from runway 33 of the Shuttle Landing Facility (SLF) at Kennedy Space Center.
Take off using main engines and climb to 10km. Then try the air-breathing scramjet engines and test the performance for different speeds and altitudes.


If you want to see very close numbers to mine you will have to do it almost exactly as my launch went and to do that you simply get into a 187km orbit some other things may also play a factor so I cannot garantee that you will see the same amounts at all.

Because you’re using AMSO and I’m using the DG S, your numbers may be very different. I used the IMFD tutorial to get to the moon using the Free-return document in the Doc/AMSO folder called: FreeReturn.doc
-AND-
the Offset Procedure document tutorial located in the
C:\...Doc\AMSO\IMFD5_OffsetProcedure.zip and then you can unzip the files inside and read OffsetTuto.html.

You also need to:
* Have the latest version of both AMSO, Orbiter, and IMFD and that you know how to do the Free-Return TLI (Trans-Lunar Injection) and Offset procedure and have done so to get to the moon.
* Have made at least 1 course correction burn during transit to the Moon to set your final PeA to 110km
* You have successfully entered an orbit around the moon at an altitude of no greater than 110km.
* Your simulated dock with your orbiter vessel occurs approximately 28 hours after undock. (This comes out to about 30 orbits I think total for the orbiter vehicle assuming that you’re at an altitude of 110km.)
* Your altitude is about 110km when you dock.
* You have jettesoned your simulated Lander about 2 hours after docking.
* Your transfer got you to the moon around GET 75:54:29.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Preflight Steps



A. --To make your burn based on my 28-30 hour EVA on the Lunar Surface, see the next section "Rendezvous Flight Timings -EVA Procedure” to continue on.
B. --To see how to do it via the earthrise timing, sunrisetiming, or counting orbits timing, see below section "Rendezvous Special Flight Timings -Earthrise/Sunrise/Orbits Procedure"

Section A -Rendezvous Flight Timings -EVA Procedure

Fast forward to GET 135:20::42
-OR-
count your orbits and make sure your at orbit # 60 to start this tutorial. When this has been done your ready to rock and roll.

For a return flight, the Apollo 11 astronauts found themselves wanting to hit a specific target on the earth. This technique is somewhat entailed and we wont be showing you how to do a precision hit on a greater body, But I will tell you that the orbit you leave on is important.

In orbiter the earth and the moon are exactly where they would be at the time of the Apollo 11's Trans Earth Injection (TEI) ignition burn time of GET 135:23:42. If you leave at the right time and make your MCC at the right time, you should come very close to the location you wish to land as long as your doing a lifting entry with a hypersonic trim angle of attack of −27°.

If your GET time doesn’t match mine, all you have to do is prepare for your TEI burn on the IMFDs at about 20 min before you see the earthrise For my flight in the DG S, the second to the last earthrise occurred at GET133:28:29 so I wait until the next sunrise to begin my TEI preperations which occured at 134:56:00 or so. This is about 11 min before your TEI burn and that should be plenty of time.



---------------------------------------------- <> <> <> <> ----------------------------------------------
Moon to Earth TEI Tutorial for IMFD v5.1x
By Adam R. (polaris149Tiberius)
Date of release: 04-21-08
Launch platforms: The default Orbiter 2006 P1 DG S
(Note: This tutorial can be adapted to work for AMSO v1.15 to latest v1.17).

START FROM 134:56:00 or so.

1. Set both Left MFD (LMFD) and Right MFD (RMFD) to Interplanetary MFD (IMFD).

2. Open the menu of both IMFDs and set the RMFD to share with the left.

3. Set the LMFD to Base Approach and the right MFD to Orbit Eject.

4. Set the LMFD source to Moon (VERY IMPORTANT STEP), and the RMFD to Base Approach instead of its default Higher Orbit.

5. Set the Target on the LFMD coordinates to Lon -172.40 (which sets it to 172.40* W), the Lat to 10.60* and the ReA to 6.37*. The rest (Alt 120.0K and Ant 21.00*) are left as the default.

6. Start to increase the Hint in the LMFD at X1 until a burn vector appears on both MFDs.
Now here is the trick. Depending on your window, or when you decide to set this, and various other factors like mass, and thrust ratio, the burn vector may show a very straight line on the RMFD. Look at the oV amount. It may be around 5.818K
If it is then your setting up a more expensive faster flight.

7. If this is so, keep Hinting up or increasing the Hint in the LMFD past this vectoring. Note that your burn solution or vector will disappear in the RMFD after a bit of increasing again -THIS IS NORMAL Don’t panic!!
Anything above 3.000K of oV is too much for the Apollo 11 mission.

8. After you are done passing the larger oV number up, and you have seen your old vector disappear, you will see a second burn vector appear in the LMFD.
When it shows up again you might find a somewhat less expensive flight but it may not be enough so you can even go past that one to see if there is a less expensive flight window here.

(By the second or third window you find you should find a window that shows the oV to be about 1.772K to about 2.200K and not below 1.000K. Again, this depends on vessel, mass, fuel consumption up to now, thrust ratio for the vessel).

9. Zoom in on the earth in the LMFD. You should see that the Earth is at the center of your screen and the TEI result shows your path going through the far right side of the Earth and slightly through the Earth no matter what projection you choose.
This is fine as you may change your dV later to fix your approach to the Earth for passive re-entry later.
(Also, you may see an squiggly line representing the path in the LMFD. This is also ok.)

(...Don’t worry don’t panic; make yourself a homemade carbonation re-breather out of your flight manual and some duct tape if you begin to panic .)

Note: This is completely normal sometimes as your IMFD tries to get the right vectoring for its burn to get you home. You will either see the squiggly line or the good line either way your going home at the oV you chose which is all we want for now.

Your direction is chosen when you open the LMFD and the reference is set to Earth so LMFD knows which heading to take kind of. It needs Orbit insert to do the rest.

10. Now your ready to burn. Click on the AB to start the Auto Burn for the LMFD and you’re off like a prom dress!!!


Mid Course Correction Proceedure

After leaving the moon’s SOI you should conduct a Delta V burn to adjust your PeA for the earth to be about 37KM. I have found this altitude to be nominal for the Apollo 11 capsule to maintain below 10 Gs when doing its passive re-entry.
Note: If you looked at your map in the IMFD before now, you will have seen your vector to look like it was heading to earth but encountered something and makes like a hook shape. This is normal too.
(AGAIN use your carbonation re-breather to calm yourself down. This is ALSO normal just after your TEI).

After you leave the moon's SOI, the vector repairs itself and extends to the earth. Whew saved again by the boys on the ground. They do ok.
Your vector shouldn’t show you following the course of the moon along its path around the earth in either direction or out into the solar system heading for Saturn or Jupiter or you may have missed a step or messed something up before now. It should kind of aim at the earth. Again, after you leave the moon's SOI, the path should fix right up and show the interception for earth.

1. At about 150:25:00 open Delta Velocity in your LMFD. In the RMFD you can use the Map to see your PeA for the Earth if you set the center to be the Earth.
Note: since your last use of the IMFD Map, you should still be set to the Moon as the target. Do not change the reference or the target if you want to see how the path will find the earth.

2 Set the dVf in the LMFD to 0.00. The RMFD should show you the plan if you press plan and it should be your current vector.

3 Set the time in the LMFD to be exactly at 150:29:57.

4. In the LMFD set the dVf amont higher or lower incremented by x1 or x10 to make the PeA in the RMFD go toward around 37km regardless of what your GET time shows in the RMFD.

5. When your done, press AB in the LMFD in one of the pages it has.

6 Fast forward to about 194:49:12 which gets you to Earth.

When you get to Earth jetteson the SM and wait until your about 300km to orient retrograde and you should land around 172.40* W, 10.60* N which is near where the real Apollo 11 splashed down which was 13°19′N 169°9′W.

---------------------------------------------- <> <> <> <> ----------------------------------------------

Special Flight Timings On An Earthrise Procedure:
You will need to study the timing of the earthrise and the sunrises to see when you can expect the next 30 or so to occur.

I find that the orbit MFD tells the period of the orbit under the heading "T" and you can accurately calculate how long 30 complete orbits will take.

When you drop off your LEM and then see the earth rise, then you will need to know when it occurs again. When doing Apollo 11 mission and arriving at July 19 17:17:05 (the end of my orbit insertion burn), I find that the moon rises at:
July 19
17:38:57
19:41:22
21:43:33
23:45:50… and so on until the 24 hours mark goes by at
July 20
18:06:50

26 hours is about how long Neil Armstrong and Aldrin were on the surface.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Unless you’re a stickler for detail this tutorial should still work.
You can look up the historical times if you want but the principle is good for our purposes today.
This also assumes that the CM is at an altitude of 110km the whole time your in orbit.
After notating when the earthrise occurs you can keep track of it using the Timer MFD or Clock MFD from the LEM as you do the Powered Decent to the lunar surface and during your moon walks. Once you know when it happens for the SCM, you can do your EVA and keep an eye on the total time the SM has been in orbit.

The total number of orbits around the moon: 30.
Number of hours after undock to LM dock: 28:03:00

If your saticefied that you can time your TEI based on your number of orbits, then you can go to step 1 of the tutorial Moon to Earth TEI Tutorial for IMFD v5.1x


--------->

Tell me what you think if you have trouble, any configuration items or critical adjustments help is "all good". Please -I need feedback as to how well this works for you and others so I can post a final version somewhere with good visibility to the Orbiter community.

Thanks and Enjoy!!

 

[richard1967]

polaris149Tiberius

you are a Life saver sir. i did try that but for some reason the rmfd when i choose baseapproach keeps saying no data. Is it because you have to stick with the

GET is not helpfull here because it assumes your in orbit on about the 14th orbit after getting to the moon.

Give an orbit or 2 for rendezvous of the LEM and you have
about July 20, 22:00:00 which is around where you should begin to follow the tutorial. If your time doesnt match mine, all you have to do is prepair your burn on the IMFDs about 10 min before you see the earth rise. For my flight in the DG the next earthrise occured at July 20 22:10:58 so I began 11 min before the earthrise 11 min should be plenty of time

And yes sure i found the pic ages ago was gonna use something else was just trying it out

 

[richard1967]

Yeh ive done the free return to the moon the only thing i do is a MCC burn to intercept for the LOI. I can get to the moon and land the LEM but getting home is the issue i will give it a try thank you very much

 

[richard1967]

thanks alot that worked a dream you have saved me from sleepless nights i cant thank you enough

 

[polaris149Tiberius]

Im glad to help

Im so glad it works for you. Since my post I have done it on the SCM with the Eagle in tow and came up with slightly different numbers or times for the earthrise and arrival etc but the process should be about the same.

and thanks for the pic sorry I just grew attached to it and others know me as that piccy. thanks so much for doing that for me. Looks like you and I both got an affinity for the coolest guy in the right stuff. Anything else I can do I am happy to help with if I have the time.

The other people were here for me when I needed help with this stuff and I am only too happy to return the favor and then some.

If you or anyone else finds different numbers and/or more correct times from the historical missions OR accurate fuel consumption information, please feel free to correct my amounts and to post your findings here.

I know some of them were wrong. For instance I havent looked up how long Armstrong and Aldrin were on the surface total time on the surface.
Either that or I read something that said thier EVA was about 24 hours so I substituted that amount for my flight.
Feel free to correct any of my tutorial I would very much appreciate the help to make it perfect.
Thanks,

 

[richard1967]

No worries worked perfect just done appolo 8 appolo 11 all the way to splashdown cheers.
And no worries about the pic He was a hero of mine well should say out of many but your welcome.

 

[polaris149Tiberius]

Wow!! Apollo 8 ??

Wow!! Apollo 8 ??

You must really be a brain. Apollo 8 never touched down on the moon. Im glad to see it works for a non-landing mission as well. By the way I like your signature. You should definately keep that.

You and I are going to be known as the Sheppard boys I think before too long. F*#k an A bubba.

If you like Sheppard, you need to see The Right Stuff. Apparently Sheppard had an affination for the hispanic commedian who made fun of the astronaughts back then. His name was Jose Jimmenez and he used to say the funniest things and make Sheppard laugh alot.
Its depicted in the movie I mentioned. Also, Sheppard was the first astonaught to piss his pants while waiting for Launch control to "light this candle" Thats why he was in a hurry. He was given a go to wet his diapers. lol

Cheers

 

[gimp1992]

No diapers back then, hence "I'm a wetback now.."

 

[BlueDragon8144]

I think he meant using IMFD to go all the way to the moon and back.

Once you get the IMFD stuff down, the TLI's and TEI's become a piece of cake. I already flew all of the mission from 8 to 17 with no problems, other than research for the plane changes made in later missions.

 

[polaris149Tiberius]

Gee I hope your wrong

Gee I hope your wrong

BlueDragon8144,
I sure hope I didnt post that extensive tutorial for no reason. I thought he wanted a tutorial to use IMFD to get back home after getting to the moon, landing and rendezvousing with the CSM. My tutorial only covers the TEI and some help getting to the right re-entry vector for a nice smooth landing in the Pacific at a certain coordinate.

Im affraid that my knowledge of IMFD was not good enough after getting to the moon to get back either so I felt this tutorial was something I could give back to M6.

If you had no problem doing these missions with ease in IMFD, then can you help me get my tutorial to be more efficient? I think Im not doing something that I should be for TEI that can save on gas. I seem to be getting extreamly close to not having enough fuel to get back.

My TLI and LOI are done on the Apollo 11 time in the AMSO saturn liftoff and then after 3 complete orbits I TLI. Then at GET + 24 hours I grab my LEM dock prgram and do my MCC #1 LOI burn. This is quite enough for getting me to the next MCC #2 LOI burn I do near the moons SOI.
In the CSM, I get into the 105km orbit fine and then circularize and base align during my 1 orbit before dropping my LEM just before the DOI decent window.
I use the AP in the LEM to decend and land on the moon and then wait 24 hours before I acend to rendezvous. I thought this ended up being 14 orbits the CSM does while Neil and Aldrin are on the surface collecting rocks.
After rendezvous, Im at about 14 orbits and ready to TEI. When I use my OWN tutorial, I sometimes run out of fuel when I do dV burns to correct for the right re-entry phase and although I dont burn up, I dont end up on the coordinates Im supposed to be.

Im sure if I enabled vehicle damage effects, I'd die much sooner than AMSO makes me die. My goal is to be within all the parameters of the actual mission and to be sucessfull in landing in the correct landing zone.

Can you check my tutorial to see if you would add anything? Especially since you did all the missions in AMSO using IMFD with no problem. I guess I need to eat more brain food or stop drinking or something cuz I am missing what else I need to do.

You mention to set the TEI in both MFDs left and right. How is that done? I think Im missing that.

Thanks again in advance

 

[jarmonik]

Moon to Earth TEI Tutorial for IMFD v5.1x
by Adam R. (polaris149Tiberius)
Date of release: 04-13-08
Launch platforms: The default Orbiter 2006 P1 DG
(Note: This tutorial can be adapted to work for AMSO v1.15 to latest v1.17 with a little tweaking of times and fuel amounts)

Looks good flight.:speakcool: I couldn't find anything wrong about it. However, starting autoburn from LMFD for orbit eject maneuver sounds a little odd but it works.

Apollo missions are easy to execute with BaseApproach but using BaseApproach for some more general missions may cause panic because only a few landing locations can be targeted from the Moon at a time. If a bad landing location is targeted BaseApproach can not find a valid transfer solution.

I'll try to find some time to give it a test flight.

 

[polaris149Tiberius]

Thanks jarmonik

Thanks Jarm.

I am doing the same thing myself so I can see if my numbers are correct. Im thinking of taking out the earthrise thing cuz it seems difficult to switch back and fourth from the LEM and the CSM while trying to pick up rocks. I may just post a good time after arrival to the moon or a period of time after touchdown. This might be easier.

Also, I was wrong about a few things which I will ammend. The total time on the moon surface which is called Lunar surface time according to Wikipedia's Apollo 11 page was 21 h 36 m 20 s I had posted that they were on the surface 24 hours or so. I was sadly wrong about that guys.

Also apparently the Number of lunar orbits was 30 not 12 as I had originally reported.
The Time in lunar orbit was 59 h 30 m 25.79 s . This will help me to make a better tutorial for AMSO realism pilots who want to stick to the historical flight.

Sadly, I was again mistaken by the location of the recovery zone. I took the numbers given in the AMSO scenario for Apollo 11 for just before TEI and assumed that this was the recovery zone. The Base Approach Target function should put you near the coordinates I have given but again until I test this I am only guessing.

If this is the case and it works, then I may leave the original AMSO coordinates and test the historical coordinates for fun.

Right now Im having trouble having enough fuel left to get back to earh when using it for Apollo 11 flight so this could be a problem for the original poster. I will work on it some more over the next few days. My tutorial will work using the DG -I know this because I made the tutorial while doing the flight and if fuel consumption is not your worry right now, then you can try it using the DG.

Thanks again for your input Jarmo.

 

[richard1967]

Hi i did do the appolo 8 and 11 worked fine but with appolo 14,15 up to now. Cant seem to get the hint correct to your tutorial i do get a vel of about 5.887 and when i click x1 it stays the same then disapears i keep clicking upto 40.m but without change must be doing something wrong. lol

 

[richard1967]

Jarmo

Hi jarmo nice work with the IMFD any ideas what could be going wrong with the return trip sometimes works sometimes doesn't think i could be doing something wrong

cheers

 

[polaris149Tiberius]

Richard your a Top Gun Tester

Richard your a Top Gun Tester!!

Thanks for the info. Your a top quallity tester and extreamly valuable to this forum in that respect alone amongst your other obvious quallities. Without testers to test the processes here people give, we would never learn things.
Thanks for testing up through the missions. I have just finished my Apollo 11 test and continue to come up short on fuel no matter what I do to save on fuel. lol. Even though I wrote the damn thing.

Maybe you could email me your Apollo 11 proceedures and windows details some day and I can do whatever your doing.

I have tried to conserve fuel like using the RCS to manually turn toward the Burn Vector in things like TLI and MCCs etc to keep IMFD from using too much fuel trying to orient the vehicle for 14 minutes due to the fact that the CSM is controlling attitude of both the LM and CM. Maybe its the cost of fuel that has gone up reciently but when I try to get back to earth, I run out of fuel before the burn can finish.

Somwhere along the line the student becomes the teacher and the teacher becomes the student. I think this is one of those times.
Maybe with IMFD devs help (i.e. Jarmo) we can shed some light as to why this is happening for both of us.

Thanks again Richard.