Flight Question AMSO realistic landing?

[the.punk]

Hi
I've got a qustion about the LM from apollo.
Was the lunar landing automated or manually?:huh:
In AMSO the lunar landing is automated, is that realistic?

Thank you for help.

 

[Urwumpe]

Was the lunar landing automated or manually?:huh:

Automatic, but astronauts preferred flying "manual" for the final meters. "manual", because even the manual mode was supplemented by computer support. But you can't do the braking phase right without a computer giving you the guidance clues - and these clues are the same an autopilot would need for flying the vehicle.

In AMSO the lunar landing is automated, is that realistic?

Yes, AMSO uses actually the realistic guidance algorithm of Apollo. LazyD was expert in the Orbiter community about this one.

 

[the.punk]

Yes, thank you for the answer urwumpe.

 

[movieman]

If I remember correctly, the computer was always flying the LEM, because the engine reacted too slowly for a human to control with any degree of accuracy; they would keep overcorrecting as the engine took more time to respond to control inputs than a human could handle.

In the last minute or two before touchdown the commander would be scanning the landing site to pick a spot that was free of boulders, craters, etc, but they pretty much just told the computer where to land and let it figure out how to get there.

 

[Pound4]

How do you do an automatic landing? I have to learn to do everything manually in the game because I don't know how to turn on the autopilot for anything. I can do the space shuttle launch manually, but I still don't know how to do an automatic one other than the playback video. I would LOVE to know how to do an autopilot DGIV launch and AMSO LEM landing. Thanks if you can help me.

 

[Jarvitä]

How do you do an automatic landing? I have to learn to do everything manually in the game because I don't know how to turn on the autopilot for anything. I can do the space shuttle launch manually, but I still don't know how to do an automatic one other than the playback video. I would LOVE to know how to do an autopilot DGIV launch and AMSO LEM landing. Thanks if you can help me.

Have a look in the \orbiter\Doc folder.

 

[Pound4]

Yeah, I just decided to do that, although most of it doesn't make sense. I love space travel and all that stuff, but I don't understand squat about all the technical terms used in these Docs.

 

[Jarvitä]

Yeah, I just decided to do that, although most of it doesn't make sense. I love space travel and all that stuff, but I don't understand squat about all the technical terms used in these Docs.

Use any of the online dictionaries/encyclopaedias.

Or, if you're truly and utterly uninterested in the concepts behind "pull the stick back and the buildings turn smaller, push it forwards and they get bigger", you could always just look at the index and only open the pages with the keyboard controls.

 

[Pound4]

I did it! Thank you SO much! I landed on the moon with Apollo 11 and it was probably the simplest thing I've ever done. Press "K", press >, then press ^, and the sim did the rest for me.


-----Post Added-----


I just successfully landed Apollo 12 on the moon, ascended, and docked back with the CSM! The autopilot of course did most of the ascent, but once the LM and CSM got within a couple hundred feet from each other, I took control and manually docked. I don't know if the sim would automatically do that, so I did it manually.

 

[FordPrefect]

I did it! Thank you SO much! I landed on the moon with Apollo 11 and it was probably the simplest thing I've ever done. Press "K", press >, then press ^, and the sim did the rest for me.

[nostalgic mode on]

...yeah... gone are the days of LLMFD and brave orbinauts! :dry:

[/nostalgic mode off]

Congrats to the accomplishment!

 

[Ark]

Take a shot at the Apollo 11 landing with Orulex and Meshland enabled. It puts Tranquility down inside a crater and you have to do the last bit of the approach and the landing manually, otherwise you'll hit the rim of the crater and go flying.

Ask how I figured that out the first time. :blink:

 

[Urwumpe]

I just successfully landed Apollo 12 on the moon, ascended, and docked back with the CSM! The autopilot of course did most of the ascent, but once the LM and CSM got within a couple hundred feet from each other, I took control and manually docked. I don't know if the sim would automatically do that, so I did it manually.

Congratulations! Did you also land right on snowman?

 

[the.punk]

I've got another question about the real LM.
Was the automatic landing rough, so you must do the rest or was it accurate to a meter like in AMSO?

 

[movieman]

I've got another question about the real LM.
Was the automatic landing rough, so you must do the rest or was it accurate to a meter like in AMSO?

The AGC didn't have function calls into Orbiter to get its precise location . It would have landed within a hundred meters or so of the planned location even if the humans didn't touch the controls, but would be lucky to get within a meter with the limited accuracy of the IMU... and would quite possibly have dropped the LEM on top of a boulder or the edge of a crater.

 

[Urwumpe]

The AGC didn't have function calls into Orbiter to get its precise location . It would have landed within a hundred meters or so of the planned location even if the humans didn't touch the controls, but would be lucky to get within a meter with the limited accuracy of the IMU... and would quite possibly have dropped the LEM on top of a boulder or the edge of a crater.

I've got another question about the real LM.
Was the automatic landing rough, so you must do the rest or was it accurate to a meter like in AMSO?

Actually, it was pretty accurate, I think less than 30m accurate + the astronauts had the possibility to define the landing point more accurate before landing, in case the target was too rough.

The IMU was a minor problem, as it got aligned shortly before landing, worse had been the fact, that the Apollo craft had no Orbiter functions to accurately measure the orbit parameters.

 

[the.punk]

Yes, thats right.But that didn't answer my question.I want to know if it's realistic in AMSO that I just switch the autopilot on and don't must do anything for the landing?

 

[Urwumpe]

Yes, thats right.But that didn't answer my question.I want to know if it's realistic in AMSO that I just switch the autopilot on and don't must do anything for the landing?

That is perfectly right. In reality this would roughly happen like that in the LM. The data for the descent gets transmitted to the LM from the ground, and is calculated by mainframes.

The crew has mostly monitoring duties during this phase, also, during the final approach, the crew visually corrects the landing site.

 

[the.punk]

Thank you for this.

 

[tblaxland]

Actually, it was pretty accurate, I think less than 30m accurate + the astronauts had the possibility to define the landing point more accurate before landing, in case the target was too rough.

More important than the horizontal accuracy, is the vertical accuracy to ensure the landing is not "rough". This was enhanced by the lunar landing radar (I can't find any data on its accuracy, though):
http://history.nasa.gov/alsj/alsj-LMRadars.html

 

[Urwumpe]

More important than the horizontal accuracy, is the vertical accuracy to ensure the landing is not "rough". This was enhanced by the lunar landing radar (I can't find any data on its accuracy, though):
http://history.nasa.gov/alsj/alsj-LMRadars.html

Well, range was calculated analog from a 130 Hz sawtooth FM signal. Analog circuits are hard to estimate, but I would expect it to have inch accuracy, the circuits should not have aged quickly enough.