News Battle of Dogger Bank II?

[dman]

"there is something wrong with our Bloody Ships today..."

 

[Notebook]

Looks like the Admiral Kuznetsov has had a busy life, and hard!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_aircraft_carrier_Admiral_Kuznetsov

Battlecruiser, there's a bit of history
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_battlecruiser_Pyotr_Velikiy

 

[boogabooga]

They could get to Port Arthur, but I bet they don't.

N.

Looking at the amount of carbon coming out of the flagship, we are going to have to rename the White Cliffs of Dover.

That was more smoke than I would expect from a modern warship, for sure.

Some things don't change too much in 115 years.

But perhaps this time, they will at least have a chance to make the return trip.

 

[Urwumpe]

That was more smoke than I would expect from a modern warship, for sure.

Could be intentional. Letting the boilers run at lower temperatures for saving maintenance costs.

 

[francisdrake]

After watching this, I fired up my trusty old "Harpoon Classic" wargame, to play some GIUK scenarios. Had to escort a convoy to Iceland, vs a Russian battle group led by a Kirow cruiser and Kusnetzow carrier. They shredded my fleet to pieces, despite me running away from them as fast as I could. Fortunately, I could lure them to overrun my Trafalgar submarines group, and they could not outrun the torpedos.

 

[Andy44]

After watching this, I fired up my trusty old "Harpoon Classic" wargame, to play some GIUK scenarios. Had to escort a convoy to Iceland, vs a Russian battle group led by a Kirow cruiser and Kusnetzow carrier. They shredded my fleet to pieces, despite me running away from them as fast as I could. Fortunately, I could lure them to overrun my Trafalgar submarines group, and they could not outrun the torpedos.

I remember that game. I sucked at it and got clobbered every time...lost interest after taking the umpteenth beating.

 

[Notebook]

Same here, never won at anything. Seem to remember their anti-ship missile was a bit fearsome. Kingfisher I think?

N.

 

[francisdrake]

Kingfisher I think

AS-6 Kingfish, yes. A Backfire hypersonic bomber can carry 3 of them. When fired from far away they came in from stratosphere in a dive with Mach 4.6! I am pretty happy that the cold war never turned hot.

I do own an old boxed version from 1991, on diskettes (!), with a very good printed book, including a foreword by Tom Clancy, who used this game to simulate scenarios of his first novel "The hunt for Red October". For me this is still a reference of cold war marine history, and a benchmark for any modern strategic wargame.

 

[mojoey]

There's a game similar to Harpoon called Fleet Command, it came out under the Jane's brand many moons ago, then under the same people who made Dangerous Waters. Not quite as user hostile as Harpoon, but still some great fun to be had.

 

[Longjap]

Backfire hypersonic bomber, another one of my favorites! I remember playing DCS setting up a scenario with a whole American fleet and a squadron of TU-22's carrying the AS-6. Shot from range, outside of reach of the fleet, they almost reach for space.

Though most of the time 70% was destroyed due to countermeasures, the fleet couldn't keep up with shear number of missiles leaving them very weakened. Good times.

 

[Andy44]

IIRC Harpoon actually started as a tabletop wargame. I used to play a lot of those. Avalon Hill titles, Starfleet Battles, and of course Battletech. Harpoon was the one game I always wanted to get good at but never did. Maybe it's time to revisit...

 

[francisdrake]

There's a game similar to Harpoon called Fleet Command,

After you mentioned this, I found on Steam a new naval warfare simulation, that is treated as a successor to Harpoon:
Command: Modern Air Naval Operations This looks very promising, but the price tag is steep. Maybe for Christmas ...

 

[Notebook]

Well, I saw this and the inevitable happened...

http://store.steampowered.com/app/497611/

N.

 

[Urwumpe]

Backfire hypersonic bomber, another one of my favorites! I remember playing DCS setting up a scenario with a whole American fleet and a squadron of TU-22's carrying the AS-6. Shot from range, outside of reach of the fleet, they almost reach for space.

Though most of the time 70% was destroyed due to countermeasures, the fleet couldn't keep up with shear number of missiles leaving them very weakened. Good times.

Same here. 99% of the problem was synchronizing the attack so that the missiles arrive at about the same time. :lol:

 

[Notebook]

Well, its getting interesting.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37779204

 

[Urwumpe]

Well, its getting interesting.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37779204

I can already see Russian sailors walking over the Mediterranean beaches with many empty fuel canisters... except the crew of the Pyotr Velikiy. They are water-skiing.

 

[MaverickSawyer]

Good read on the Kuznetsov... http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...to-be-heavily-armed-even-without-its-air-wing

 

[boogabooga]

Well, its getting interesting.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37779204

This goes back to the heavy smoke thing.

It's just very surprising that Russia would not-in their most important and symbolic global power projection asset- invest in nuclear propulsion.

 

[MaverickSawyer]

I suspect it may have been because the Kuznetsov was, in many regards, a prototype. They were never sure if they'd really ever use it as an operational carrier until recently. :lol:

 

[Andy44]

I don't think the USSR was ever really into power projection; certainly not in the style of the US Navy or the Royal Navy before that. Russia has always been most concerned with fending off invasions and deterring attacks, thanks to historical episodes with Hitler and Napoleon, etc. Even at the height of the Cold War they never took aircraft carriers very seriously.

That's why seeing a Russian naval task force trying to do the sort of thing the USN does as a matter of routine is such a sensation. A navy capable of force projection is not only expensive but also requires a lot of experience and know-how. The Imperial Japanese Navy borrowed as much knowledge as they could from the Royal Navy and by sending their officers to the US Naval Academy, etc.

Russia is pretty much on their own when it comes to figuring this out. Plus they have to deal with NATO trying to throttle their fuel and supply sources and generally making the whole thing as difficult as possible for them. They have just one carrier, which is old and seldom used.

Contrast with the US, which has 10 full size carriers, plus 9 amphibs that carry fixed wing USMC Harriers and are thus basically light carriers.

---------- Post added at 09:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:53 PM ----------

Correction: Russia still has a Kirov class cruiser, which should count as a light carrier I suppose...