General Question Best payload utility?

[White Owl]

Hello!

So that "joined date" by my avatar says I've been around over a year. Well... I looked at Orbiter last year, learned to fly the XR2, then got distracted by something shiny and left without learning anything else. :facepalm:

Now I'm back and learning more things. Mostly using Shuttle Fleet, I can launch to a specific orbit, adjust the orbit as needed, rendezvous and dock with the ISS. I can deorbit and land on my desired runway. (Usually. Need more practice to get consistent.)

What next? I want to start launching custom payloads! Not so interested in historical flights; rather, I want to launch probes to interesting places and build stations and interplanetary vessels of my own design.

So all that prefix, just to get to the question: What is currently the best method/tool/utility/addon/etc. to launch custom payloads?

I read in the Orbiter manual how to add something in the scenario file. I see similar instructions in the Shuttle Fleet documentation. I also see Universal Cargos mentioned quite often. That Multistage 2015 project promises "live" payloads... but I'm honestly unsure what exactly that project is even about, since the first post says it's merging features of two other addons that I'm unfamiliar with. I see StackEditor, and am unsure if it's useful for what I want to do. IMS looks exciting, but is that for building ships one module at a time, or spawning a complete vessel via scenario file?

I feel like I'm missing some crucial concept about the whole business. Like I don't know what's the right question to ask.

If you wanted to launch a probe to an asteroid and then build a manned station in LEO, what tools would you use?

 

[boogabooga]

This is a big topic so I will start simple and come back to this later.

First, you should know what a "live" payload is.

In some add-ons, the payload is not present at all when the scenario begins. You won't see it in the original scenario file. Rather, the launcher uses a dummy mesh to represent the payload and then spawns it into the scenario when it is time for the payload to be released. This is the way the older multistage2 handled things. It's simple, and works well enough for relatively simple payloads. For example, it works well with spacecraft3 vessels (same developer).

In other add-ons, the payload is specified in the scenario file and attached to the launch vehicle. You could use F3 and shift focus to the payload right when the scenario starts. It is "there" the whole time and is why it is a "live" payload. This is probably what you want if you have a more sophisticated custom vessel that has properties that can or must be specified in the scenario file (UMMU crew, damage state, crew oxygen level, etc.). IIRC, Velcro Rockets uses something like this. It is a big deal in to add this to multistage 2015 because it will make the system much more versatile than multistage2.

 

[White Owl]

Right, I knew I was forgetting to even mention some more options I've seen around. Velcro was one, another was Payload Manager.

Thanks for explaining live payloads! Makes perfect sense.

I'm willing to read manuals and experiment with settings. Just uncertain where to start with all these different options.

 

[boogabooga]

What kind of payload do you want to launch? What do you want to do?

Let's start with "I want to launch probes to interesting places."

First of all, it will be easier to learn to navigate with IMFD or TransX if you start with something more forgiving (Delta Glider, Delta Glider IV, XR series, arrow freighter, etc.)
I will assume that you are proficient enough at deep space navigation to move on to probes.

I recommend the following:

- http://www.orbiter-forum.com/showthread.php?t=32732
(Notice that I set up a multistage2 based mission to an asteroid in post 10 and a dll Jarvis mission to Uranus in post 14)
- Anything by Brian J

Both use custom probes that have some additional features beyond what you would find in spacecraft3. But, the focus is in navigating and executing the mission itself. We don't have to worry about managing a UMMU crew. We don't care too much about eye candy on the launcher itself. Also, the targets of the missions are well-defined in advance.

For this, multistage2 vessels work just fine. The drawback is that you have to define every aspect of the mission in advance through ini files. You can't change your mind about the payload from within orbiter. You can't even decide on a different launch trajectory from within Orbiter. You have to edit ini files. So read the manual! It isn't really hard though. But, if you do the grunt work with the ini files and come up with a cool mission, it is good to share with the community. Example: http://www.orbiter-forum.com/showthread.php?p=508421&postcount=20

I don't like to use Velcro rockets on beyond low earth orbit missions. The problem (and strength) with Velcro is that each stage is its own vessel. Shifting focus from vessel to vessel through the launch isn't convenient as it resets some MFDs (IMFD surface launch, launch MFD, etc.)

 

[White Owl]

So the short answer is: you select the appropriate utility to set up a payload with a launcher, depending on the overall mission. There is no one simple solution.

Many more thanks for the detailed response. (And I'm still listening!) I'm starting to read through some of these linked resources.

 

[boogabooga]

You are not going to like this answer, but IMHO your next move toward interplanetary should be to learn to use IMFD and/or TransX using the stock Delta Glider (possibly arrow freighter). There are MANY tutorials around for that. You need to be able to get to where you want to go upside down and backwards in a Deltaglider before you move on. Then you can try something that requires crew & resource management (XR-2, etc.).

Then try to do some of the pre-existing realistic probe missions that I have referenced. Those have limited fuel and are much more difficult to accomplish.

Planning a full mission with a realistic payload is quite advanced. It is much more than strapping a payload to a launcher with some ini files. You need to understand something about the science (celestial mechanics, Hohmann transfers, launch windows, delta-V budget, genetic algorithms, trajectory, slingshot maneuvers, etc.) I'm not sure you are there yet.

As far as IMS goes, yes it is a thing and it is fun
Right now though you are mostly limited to the modules that come with it which are from an older Greg Burch add-on. I think there is a way to make other modules IMS compatible but I have never tried. I know Pappy's hanger has a lot of real and fictitious space station components: http://francophone.dansteph.com/?page=addons

Stack editor lets you build an IMS ship or station ahead of time, then port over into Orbiter in its entirety. You can also assemble module by module in Orbiter. Dantassii is the man to talk to about that.

 

[White Owl]

I'm an experienced KSP player, with plenty of time in RSS and other realism mods. It ain't Orbiter, but I do have some knowledge of how space works. That's why my original question was more about the mechanics of putting different elements together. And that looks like Velcro Rockets is the most common and generally useful tool for mating launchers and payloads, at least for my initial purposes.

But of course I'm interested in learning about all the options!

 

[fred18]

Hopefully by the end of the week you'll be able to jump in the new multistage