Andy44
owner: Oil Creek Astronautix
That's the kind of attitude I was talking about above. Fear of your neighbor and the desire to hold him back will keep us firmly cemented to the ground, waiting for the "only ones" in Huntsville to do it for us.
Question Brainstorm: How to build a spaceship?
- Thread starter Artlav
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That's the kind of attitude I was talking about above. Fear of your neighbor and the desire to hold him back will keep us firmly cemented to the ground, waiting for the "only ones" in Huntsville to do it for us.
vonneuman
Orbinaut
The problem is not getting a rocket to space, it's getting a human into orbit. If you just want to put a rocket into space what you need to do is:
1. Get some weather balloons to lift your rocket to the edge of space. This is actually pretty easy. I read an article about some college students who did the same thing to take photos of space. Minus the rocket.
2. Drop your rocket payload.
3. Ignite the rocket.
4. Let it fly until it is technically in space. About 100km up.
5. let it fall back to earth.
6. Gloat
You can add a shoot and a GPS tracker if you want the rocket add weather balloons back in one piece. Because the rocket is not going at orbital speeds there is no need for a heat shield.
1. Get some weather balloons to lift your rocket to the edge of space. This is actually pretty easy. I read an article about some college students who did the same thing to take photos of space. Minus the rocket.
2. Drop your rocket payload.
3. Ignite the rocket.
4. Let it fly until it is technically in space. About 100km up.
5. let it fall back to earth.
6. Gloat
You can add a shoot and a GPS tracker if you want the rocket add weather balloons back in one piece. Because the rocket is not going at orbital speeds there is no need for a heat shield.
Andy44
owner: Oil Creek Astronautix
You don't even need the balloon for a suborbital rocket launch. Some amateur rocket-builders did it a few years back.
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The problem is not getting a rocket to space, it's getting a human into orbit. If you just want to put a rocket into space what you need to do is:
1. Get some weather balloons to lift your rocket to the edge of space. This is actually pretty easy. I read an article about some college students who did the same thing to take photos of space. Minus the rocket.
2. Drop your rocket payload.
3. Ignite the rocket.
4. Let it fly until it is technically in space. About 100km up.
5. let it fall back to earth.
6. Gloat
You can add a shoot and a GPS tracker if you want the rocket add weather balloons back in one piece. Because the rocket is not going at orbital speeds there is no need for a heat shield.
This has already been done. I remember some time ago I read about a group of rocket amateurs who launched an oversized model rocket on a suborbital trajectory exceeding the 100 km altitude.
I think we should change topic from launching a human to launching a small few kg micro satellite into low orbit that can take photos of Earth and transmit them back. This kind of project just might be possible for group of experienced rocket amateurs and some electronics students with relatively moderate funding. If a balloon launch is used it could help to reduce the overall size and cost of a rocket by getting rid of the largest and most expensive first stage that would otherwise needed to boost the rocket out of the atmosphere.
BTW what is the most powerful rocket motor available commercially to rocket amateurs?
Just because they never fly doesn't mean that they aren't started. Moreover, no one's selling anything here--the proposal was specifically "open-source" kit plane plans. Not a for-profit venture.
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With what as been posted before here's my new idea (under realistic conditions) of how to accomplish at least a robot to the Moon. This is also bearing in mind that the people who participate in this forum would cooperate.
We would build the electronics first. Arduino probably would handle this. Don't forget to build a box with controlled environment (temperature, air pressure and anything else if needed) so that it works on space. To control the box's pressure one could use nitrogen or carbon dioxide canisters (a simple fire extinguisher could supply the CO2). To protect the circuitry from nasty radiation and strong magnetic field one could use Mu-Metal that's found in some sensible domestic devices. With the main circuit board it would be handy to attach GPS beacon.
The materials would be carbon fibre and the "special" steel. Also Titanium if available in practical quantities. To have the "special" steel one, with knowledge in metallurgy, could melt usual steel and start the 'alchemy' needed.
Next step is to build a model aircraft that will do the atmospheric part of the voyage. It would need a very large wing span to reach at least to 50 Km high. Then the plane would release a modified meteorologic-balloon-like (lots of aluminium foil) with the rockets at atleast 100 Km high. At this point the first stage of the rockets would be launched. With the right mathematicians in the team we could foresee the needed fuel to reach orbital altitude. The fuel would be the usual for oxide combustion LFB (liquid fuel boosters). These LFB would fall and the second stage (with the same fuel kind?) would fire until stable orbit was reached (Medium Earth Orbit is plausible?). Then the third stage would align planes in the equator of course. If by this time our craft is not hit by debris then the main capsule would be free to use it's fire extinguish... I mean Gas Attitude Engines (GAE). these could be enough to slowly make a virtual intersection trajectory to the Moon. The passengers would be happy with weightlessness but with out enough fuel to reach the Moon, so they would jettison the robot powered by Arduino with a embedded 5 megapixel cam cannibalized from an Android smartphone. The robot's Environment Control Box (EnCoB) would have large induction coil and a microwave oven magnetron to generate a protective magnetic field and heat for the lunar night. Pictures would be sent back with long-wave radio communication system being the receivers in Russia (possible in Siberia?), Spain, Portugal, Northern Australia, Hawaii, UK and Costa Rica.
Good idea?
We would build the electronics first. Arduino probably would handle this. Don't forget to build a box with controlled environment (temperature, air pressure and anything else if needed) so that it works on space. To control the box's pressure one could use nitrogen or carbon dioxide canisters (a simple fire extinguisher could supply the CO2). To protect the circuitry from nasty radiation and strong magnetic field one could use Mu-Metal that's found in some sensible domestic devices. With the main circuit board it would be handy to attach GPS beacon.
The materials would be carbon fibre and the "special" steel. Also Titanium if available in practical quantities. To have the "special" steel one, with knowledge in metallurgy, could melt usual steel and start the 'alchemy' needed.
Next step is to build a model aircraft that will do the atmospheric part of the voyage. It would need a very large wing span to reach at least to 50 Km high. Then the plane would release a modified meteorologic-balloon-like (lots of aluminium foil) with the rockets at atleast 100 Km high. At this point the first stage of the rockets would be launched. With the right mathematicians in the team we could foresee the needed fuel to reach orbital altitude. The fuel would be the usual for oxide combustion LFB (liquid fuel boosters). These LFB would fall and the second stage (with the same fuel kind?) would fire until stable orbit was reached (Medium Earth Orbit is plausible?). Then the third stage would align planes in the equator of course. If by this time our craft is not hit by debris then the main capsule would be free to use it's fire extinguish... I mean Gas Attitude Engines (GAE). these could be enough to slowly make a virtual intersection trajectory to the Moon. The passengers would be happy with weightlessness but with out enough fuel to reach the Moon, so they would jettison the robot powered by Arduino with a embedded 5 megapixel cam cannibalized from an Android smartphone. The robot's Environment Control Box (EnCoB) would have large induction coil and a microwave oven magnetron to generate a protective magnetic field and heat for the lunar night. Pictures would be sent back with long-wave radio communication system being the receivers in Russia (possible in Siberia?), Spain, Portugal, Northern Australia, Hawaii, UK and Costa Rica.
Good idea?
JamesG
Orbinaut
I don't understand the need for the ballon stage? When you reach ceiling for its air-breathing propulsion, just light the rocket and start working on your lateral, orbital velocity. Altitude will follow.
It would be easier to simply embed the computer hardware in a non-conductive, high density epoxy. This gives you vaccum and some radiation protection. Insulate and allow the electronics own heat to keep it warm. A small Faraday cage is good enough to protect it from magnetic and ionization threats.
Flying a small unmanned
to the moon isn't very hard (the Indians managed it), its an order of magnitude more difficult to send people. Much more mass, much more safety and redundancy required.
It would be easier to simply embed the computer hardware in a non-conductive, high density epoxy. This gives you vaccum and some radiation protection. Insulate and allow the electronics own heat to keep it warm. A small Faraday cage is good enough to protect it from magnetic and ionization threats.
Flying a small unmanned
to the moon isn't very hard (the Indians managed it), its an order of magnitude more difficult to send people. Much more mass, much more safety and redundancy required.
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Andy44
owner: Oil Creek Astronautix
Actually, it's heat you need to protect the electronics from, not cold.
JamesG
Orbinaut
I was addressing his concern over deep cold. You insulate it from both and allow its own resistaive heat to keep it a stable temp. Thermodynamics being what they are, you will radiate excessive heat via IO wiring and bracketry.
Any sort of SCRAM/RAM powered early ascent would not be possible, IMO. That sort of thing requires complex aerodynamic parameters for the engines and resistant heatshield.
It would be better to just suck it up and build a first stage.
It would be better to just suck it up and build a first stage.
Hah. The heat from electronics won't "keep itself warm." It'll fry itself.
JamesG
Orbinaut
Not at -200 F.
JamesG
Orbinaut
Sigh... I don't disagree with you but you've missed the context.
Please elaborate on the context, then.
JamesG
Orbinaut
Please read the thread in its entirety, first.
vonneuman
Orbinaut
I agree, nix the balloon stage if you want to get into orbit. You need speed, not altitude to get into orbit. Radiation is not to much of a problem. The problem is the massive temperature changes in space. Due to space being a great insulator. Nothing to weaken the heat of the sun, nothing to keep it in place.
BTW, any of you heard of this http://www.googlelunarxprize.org/lunar/about-the-prize ?
Or this http://www.jpaerospace.com/ ?
BTW, any of you heard of this http://www.googlelunarxprize.org/lunar/about-the-prize ?
Or this http://www.jpaerospace.com/ ?
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I have. You haven't said exactly you're going to be doing all this insulation from cold, since (as T.Neo pointed out) a vacuum is already very insulating and doesn't conduct.
You also haven't explained why you think that having electronics fry themselves in their own generated heat is a good idea.
Andy44
owner: Oil Creek Astronautix
Looking through textbooks I notice that electronics consistently need to shed heat, whereas heating elements are usually used for things like propellant lines. You need to keep your electrical equipment from frying, and your propellant lines from freezing.
This leads to the obvious solution of using the propellant as liquid cooling for the electronics!
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