Buzz Aldrins Race into Space

[barcode]

My only complaint about Race into Space is that it ends after the first moon landing. It would have been awesome if you could continue on past that, doing manned missions to the planets and space station programs.

 

[N_Molson]

For me it's one of the best computer's games ever. Simple, efficient and really addictive ! And yeah porting it to Orbiter would be wonderful. For what I know from Orbiter SDK & C++, I think it's possible. Though it would be a lot of work ! But dealing with failures would be especially interesting !

 

[Lunar_Lander]

I found the game when looking for Virgin's Shuttle on the Internet and it was a suggested game (one of these "You may also like" things) and I got what is called the BARIS floppy version (basically the 1.0 version which still had many errors). I remember that I played until I was flying Gemini 30 in Fall 1977 after which the game ended, and neither I as the US nor the PC as USSR player had reached the moon! (That's right, Gemini 30 was my desperate try of a Manned Lunar Pass, and the USSR never got anything to the moon, besides one Cosmos probe). When I got the CD version, that was much better, and I made it to the moon (or was beaten to it xD)

Just recently I broke out RIS and it was fun too. In the end, in Fall 1973 Voskhod 25 landed on the moon with a woman on-board. And the whole program had no casualties. YAY!

 

[4throck]

This game could be remade browser based. It could run as an option were on the forum. It's not impossible to have an exporter that created the situation files to use in Orbiter.

 

[Urwumpe]

This game could be remade browser based. It could run as an option were on the forum. It's not impossible to have an exporter that created the situation files to use in Orbiter.

Wouldn't be hard to make it as Java applet... no idea on Flash, I think the effort should be equivalent.

Maybe drop the classic space-race theme and do it as space tourism/COTS sim,so many players can compete...

 

[4throck]

It's doable in PHP server side with some javascript on the browser side. So no install, really just a login. Two or three persons with some web programming skills could manage it. It's a matter of creating a suitable database organization, a form/buttons interface so that the user can perform actions within each turn, and a graphic layout within the browser to reflect progress in the game.

I'd very much like to see something like this. I can contribute with graphics and to the web interface side of things.

A web based open source approach is simpler to develop and can accommodate an open number of contributers, in my opinion.

 

[Urwumpe]

It's doable in PHP server side with some javascript on the browser side. So no install, really just a login. Two or three persons with some web programming skills could manage it. It's a matter of creating a suitable database organization, a form/buttons interface so that the user can perform actions within each turn, and a graphic layout within the browser to reflect progress in the game.

Yes, but I think such games lack the "visual" aspect of traditional computer games. They are just web interfaces for an application. Flash or Java would allow some better visuals, also the game mechanics wouldn't be limited to what can be piped through the website. I know some pretty high level PHP/DHTML games, like Skrupel, and I am pretty aware of the limitations.

I'd very much like to see something like this. I can contribute with graphics and to the web interface side of things.

A web based open source approach is simpler to develop and can accommodate an open number of contributers, in my opinion.

Java is now also no large problem and could rely on the same server, just using a better presentation method.

 

[4throck]

Yes, technically a browser game is limited. But it IS much simpler to code and accessible to much more people. I do know of a lot of people that are stuck with obsolete computers at work or school. Java on those machines leads to frequent system hangs. Flash runs better but for really complex stuff, like 3D, it really needs a fast machine. HTML+Javascript tend to run fine, fast and give no problems.

It's what Google uses for the maps API and I'm sure they have thought about different languages.

Anyway, if someone is willing to do it, I can help with graphics, buttons, layouts, whatever.

 

[SiberianTiger]

Maybe drop the classic space-race theme and do it as space tourism/COTS sim,so many players can compete...

It's hard to imagine a competition with the spirit of race dropped. The hardest part of repeating the B.A.R.I.S. success is to come up with a sound idea that can serve a driving motive for a gameplay around rocket parts reliability and space mission profiles.

 

[Urwumpe]

It's hard to imagine a competition with the spirit of race dropped. The hardest part of repeating the B.A.R.I.S. success is to come up with a sound idea that can serve a driving motive for a gameplay around rocket parts reliability and space mission profiles.

Why not? Imagine you get "customers", selecting their preferred service by how much they get for their money. If you can offer them a trip to the moon for the same money as others would take for two weeks in LEO, you would clearly have an advantage. If your rocket fails with tourists on-board, you would get a serious PR disaster. Something that makes you invest in reliability.

 

[SiberianTiger]

Why not? Imagine you get "customers", selecting their preferred service by how much they get for their money. If you can offer them a trip to the moon for the same money as others would take for two weeks in LEO, you would clearly have an advantage. If your rocket fails with tourists on-board, you would get a serious PR disaster. Something that makes you invest in reliability.

But B.A.R.I.S. was about reaching milestones and not establishing a successful enterprise. Getting to next milestone was the driver. It's not realistic to assume that suborbital jumps or LEO space tourism will at once become non-profitable when a first trans-lunar loop with tourists on board is achieved, - I'm not even sure they'd become any cheaper.

Sorry, my group collaboration profile is 'critic' :tiphat:

 

[rucinter]

I'm thinking at Travian-style web-based BARIS... With a lot of players, trying to get to the Moon, Mars and beyond.

 

[Lunar_Lander]

IIRC, Fritz Bronner wanted to make a "JPL Game" as he called it, a board game about the unmanned exploration of the planets and next would have been "Liftoff Mars".

I think that BARIS focuses too much on getting people to the moon. Of course you have your Ranger or Cosmos which you can send to Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn; but as all the strategy guides say, it is not recommended because it takes away time and launch pads. And actually we had the "races" going on inside the USA and USSR too: The Navy and later the USAF did not want the Army-von Braun Team to launch their Explorer and the Juno II-Pioneers first, they wanted to have Vanguard and ABLE-1 first.

Also, after Sputnik, the USSR concentrated on getting Vostok ready but also tried their first moonshots with Lunik and also made the Sputnik 7/Venera 1 pair, as well as Marsnik 1 and 2. That all is lacking in BARIS/RIS and it could be quite interesting to have all these other steps in for experienced players. Neither USA or USSR walked through the space race with only three launch pads and six launches per year. What do you think?

 

[SiberianTiger]

Some more confidence in winged reusable vehicles would also be a good idea for such a game. Providing more variety to the gameplay.

 

[4throck]

The type or number of vehicles, programs, whatever isn't very important from a programming point of view.

The diference between a shuttle or a capsule for example, on the game code itself, will be prety much the graphic displayed and the assotiated atributes (cost, crew, cargo, etc). So different vehicles are a simple thing to implement.

What needs to be defined is really what actions the user can perform on each turn. With such a list, structuring both the game mechanics and graphic layout is easy.

Of course, what's really needed is someone to start working on it !
I can help with graphics, whatever language or format it is released, provided it's a free project and credit is given.
Any more volunteers? :hello:

 

[Urwumpe]

What needs to be defined is really what actions the user can perform on each turn. With such a list, structuring both the game mechanics and graphic layout is easy.

Well, for example in a space tourism context:
- buy parts from NPC companies or other players.
- sell own developments to other players.
- select and schedule mission (every month, every second month, etc), set limits, like no launch with less than x% passengers.
- advertise mission
- assemble spacecraft
- do static test
- launch spacecraft or give launch clearance. (In a tick based game, giving only clearance might be better, so you can launch while sleeping).
- hire/fire engineers, technicians, pilots, ticket agents
- train employees
- build spaceport or other ways to build infrastructure.
- Spy on other player
- Attend space tourism conference (possible every x ticks, ideally once per week real time), exchanging and bragging with the developments, sign contracts, whateverisneeded.

Of course, what's really needed is someone to start working on it !

As if that is really a problem here. :lol:

Any more volunteers? :hello:

I resumed work on my space tourism race into space, but as Curses(ASCII art) based client/server prototype. Would be pretty unsuitable for a PHP app I would say, since it is build around a pretty complex project management scheme, modeled along real project management in spaceflight. Including stuff like management proposals, requirements, specifications and design reviews. And correctly simulated coffee prices based on demand and availability.

It is more some kind of geek homage to BARIS.

If somebody is interested, I can post an up to date single executable from time to time, it is really just minimal, most of the game data is generated (like typical for such ASCII games) during the game.

 

[Shadow Addict]

I love BARIS. It's one of my favorite games of all time, really, combining my love for management sims with my love for spaceflight. About a year ago I proposed a BARIS-inspired Orbiter addon, though I'm still not sure how feasible that would be.

Anyway, I'd love to see an updated BARIS; one of my longest babbling Word documents is full of ideas for a BARIS-like, more customizable console game, but as a month-old C++ noob I don't see myself doing anything like that very soon

 

[Lunar_Lander]

@shadow addict: Would you like to share that list with us? Seems a good idea to me!

Have you read the "Enhancement Requests" at the BARIS Wiki while it was still up? That one had some great ideas too. Some are actually prepared for the next RIS release, for example if an astronaut is about to retire, his name will be black in the lists.

 

[Shadow Addict]

Er, it's not really very usable as is. When I write out my ideas, I end up with pages and pages of ideas that get completely contradicted later on when I have a different idea. When I set out with one of those, I think I intend to condense it later into something more formal, but I've never actually gotten around to doing that

The basic idea is an appeal to my love for procedurally generated games. I lovelovelove any game where the whole course of the game can be different from beginning to end, like with Dwarf Fortress and Orbiter. BARIS is great, but my main issue with it is that your options are pretty limited, ESPECIALLY if you want to finish the game in the 60's. For example, in my experience, a "successful" BARIS game uses most of the first three years making sure I get the orbital satellite milestone first and developing the Titan rocket to carry probes and Gemini. This gets me pretty well-off by the mid-60's, and I still haven't ever gotten a moon landing before the end of the 60's using this method. In fact, the only method that has gotten me a moon landing was giving up all of the milestones to focus on the direct ascent method; using this, I got to the moon in the 60's, but I missed out on the significant fun of the game, which is recreating the excitment of Space Race milestones.

In addition to the implied linearness I described, there are also just a lot of aspects of the game that don't allow the player to choose. Some of these choices would take almost no work: allowing the player to name the programs, allowing him to name the space agency, etc. Then there are a few that would require a bit more of an implementation to add features without changing existing ones. The player could be allowed to choose which country his program starts in, which could also function as a way to choose difficulty; obviously, the Burkina Faso space program would be more difficult to get funding for than the American space program (perhaps an extreme example, but hopefully you get the point). The player could have more of a variety of choices in the technology available (a temporary solution, but ultimately not fixing the linear problem).

Finally, there are changes which I think are necessary to really bring the game up to the non-linear standard I'm looking for. The game could have two different modes: government agency mode, more like BARIS, and space tourism mode, where the player has all the benefits and disadvantages of a non-government organization. The research and development process needs to be more fleshed out, allowing for more realistic allocation of funding, outsourcing to aeronautics companies, etc. Rockets should be more customizable. This obviously isn't as easy to do well; having few options for a customizable rocket isn't very different from having several options for a non-customizable rocket. It could be done simply, at first, with tradeoffs like disposable boosters for fewer stages, or reusable stages in situations where it might be profitable. Once a system like that is working, it could be augmented to have more and more features. I believe that a system like that could work.

In the interests of not saying anything redundant, the game should be played in steps as detailed as Urwumpe already described:

Well, for example in a space tourism context:
- buy parts from NPC companies or other players.
- sell own developments to other players.
- select and schedule mission (every month, every second month, etc), set limits, like no launch with less than x% passengers.
- advertise mission
- assemble spacecraft
- do static test
- launch spacecraft or give launch clearance. (In a tick based game, giving only clearance might be better, so you can launch while sleeping).
- hire/fire engineers, technicians, pilots, ticket agents
- train employees
- build spaceport or other ways to build infrastructure.
- Spy on other player
- Attend space tourism conference (possible every x ticks, ideally once per week real time), exchanging and bragging with the developments, sign contracts, whateverisneeded.

The player would be able to do all of these things, and of course he would be allowed to skip, say, the static test if he wants to save money, leaving any hidden flaws unfound.

That was a bit more sprawling than I meant it to be. :blahblah:

 

[Urwumpe]

I remember a NASA PDF, that contained first-order mass estimates for various X-Prize/Space tourism design options, like vertical take-off/horizontal landing winged stages, parachutes, etc.

Maybe I can find this again, would make a useful help for such a project.