General Question Crew Transfers and Fuel Cell Life

[EaslMar]

I'm relatively new to Orbiter and the Orbiter Forum, and in browsing through I noticed numerous references to crew transfers in Orbiter. Forgive me for not knowing this but is there actually a way to transfer crews between docked spacecraft in Orbiter? Or is it basically an issue of "let's dock and say we did?"

Another question I should probably know already: Are things like fuel cell life modelled in Orbiter? For example if the space shuttle is in orbit for longer than its design duration will the fuel cells "die" resulting in lack of control, etc?

Both of these sound like the sort of things I should know alreay, but please take the time to help out a newbie. Thanks!

Added question: Somebody was asking about attaching an engine to the ISS to change its orbit, and a reply said no because the stress on the truss would shake it apart. Would this actually happen in Orbiter? (This is sort of an extension of my above questions, but I didn't directly address it before.)

 

[Fabri91]

Have a look here!

UMMU is what you're looking for. Several addon ships (like those available in the link, but not only) use this module to simulate an actual crew.

 

[Izack]

UMMU is what you're looking for, yes. The problem is that not every ship is compatible with UMMU, ergo you can't transfer crew to any old ship. Say you dock to the ISS from a DeltagliderIV, and transfer a crew member (EVA while docked). That crew member just goes kaput from the simulation because the default ISS doesn't support UMMU. In other words, be careful which ships you board, because you might not get them back.

For the shuttle's fuel cell, no. Default Atlantis doesn't model a fuel cell or even an ECLSS (or UMMU for that matter.) I know that both the XR-1/2/5 have a working APU with limited fuel, and the DeltagliderIV has an emergency fuel cell with limited life, and I'm sure there are others.

 

[EaslMar]

Great, that's perfect.... any ideas about making non-compatible ships compatible? Particularly the ISS, is there an addon that makes it compatible?

Also, any thoughts about the edit? (Probably added after you first replied)

 

[Izack]

I believe [ame="http://www.orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=4457"]this[/ame] is exactly what you're looking for.

To the edit: No, Orbiter doesn't model structural damage. However, if you're trying to be realistic, then it's a good practise not to try that. And another point: firing a docked engine against the ISS is going to give it some wicked torque, which will make it extremely difficult to control.

 

[Lucy]

[ame=http://www.orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=3509]This[/ame] attempts to take care of the incompatible vessels.

 

[garyw]

I prefer [ame="http://www.orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=3509"]UMMUFA v.2.0[/ame] as it allows me UMMU abilities on any vessel with a docking port.

Its really quite cool to take a ship up with 7 crew and bring a ship back with a different 7.

 

[EaslMar]

That's good.... Hardly reasonable that nobody has solved that (I just hadn't looked!)......


Izack, I wasn't planning to try it, but it was a good way to ask about structural damage in general.... I don't know if you saw the thread that question came from, in case you haven't here it is - http://www.orbiter-forum.com/showthread.php?t=15505

While I'm on the subject, I've noticed that when I F3 and switch to the ISS, there is no fuel. On the real ISS besides the orientation thrusters there are two small engines for small orbit changes--I believe one of them is on the Zvezda module. Is this also not included? Or is there another reason for the ISS not orienting itself in Orbiter? Also - in real life how do they avoid torque if they have to use the little engine? Or, for that matter, with a Shuttle, Soyuz, or Progress (which is what is usually used for orbit changes)?

 

[garyw]

Progress, ATV and ISS thrusters are used to boost ISS. The ISS in Orbiter is a CFG vessel that should have fuel. Mine does and the CFG file looks like this - note the line for max fuel

; === Configuration file for the International Space Station ===

Meshname = ProjectAlpha_ISS
ImageBmp = Images\Vessels\Default\ProjectAlpha_ISS.bmp
Mass = 450e3
Size = 55.0
CrossSections = 634 4103 878
Inertia = 385 719 508
EnableFocus = TRUE
EnableXPDR = TRUE
XPDR = 466

MaxFuel = 5000  
Isp = 3000
MaxAttitudeThrust = 2000



; === Docking ports ===
BEGIN_DOCKLIST
0.08 -5.8 15.7      0 0  1   0 -1 0  588
0.09 -17.9 -3.8     0 -1 0   0 0  1  586
0.05 -4.30 -36.3    0 0 -1   0 1  0  584
0.05 -7.7 10.3      0 -1 0   0 0 -1  582
0.05 -18.3 -23.7    0 -1 0   0 0 -1  580
END_DOCKLIST

Oh, and they don't always get the CoG calcuations rigt:

 

[EaslMar]

For me it looks like this

ISSrojectAlpha_ISS
STATUS Orbiting Earth
ELEMENTS 6734919 0.0009 74.513 169.034 328.305 122.0 51544.5
AROT -110.00 -15.00 -84.00
DOCKINFO 1:0,PB-01
END

...and there's definitely no fuel. On the no-panel view there is no green bar at all.

---------- Post added at 10:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:02 PM ----------

For me it looks like this:

ISSrojectAlpha_ISS
STATUS Orbiting Earth
ELEMENTS 6734919 0.0009 74.513 169.034 328.305 122.0 51544.5
AROT -110.00 -15.00 -84.00
DOCKINFO 1:0,PB-01
END

...and in the no-panel view there is no green bar at all--definitely no fuel.

 

[garyw]

That's the scenario file. you want the CFG file under CONFIG\VESSELS\PROJECTALPHA_ISS.CFG

You might be able to add fuel via the propellant slider in the scenario editor.

 

[jinglesassy]

@Garyw Yeah i have to fuel the iss manually

 

[EaslMar]

I think I found out why by default there is no fuel. :embarrassed: I checked the config file, which is just like what garyw posted. I edited the scenario file to give the ISS full fuel, started Orbiter, tried to go prograde..... and ended up in an unending tumble!

Needless to say that's not something I'll try again anytime soon......