Problem DG to ISS, degrees of pitch for climb and launch heading?

[Lucy]

There are many free ways to make a video. Google is your friend.

 

[Woo482]

There are plenty of free screen recording programs out there, just to name one: camstudio and as everyone else has said so far, There's nothing wrong with the simulator, I've been using it for about 4 years now and I've never had a problem with getting the Delta Glider into orbit after following tutorials and the manual :thumbup:

 

[Zatnikitelman]

You can use the trial version of Fraps I think. You can only record in 30 second bursts, but it autosaves the video so you don't have to start, stop, exit orbiter, save, do stuff, get back into Orbiter etc. Just assign a hotkey (I believe default is F9 which conflicts with Orbiter)start the video, then hit it twice every 29 or so seconds, then combine the videos into one video. However, I am not sure if the Fraps demo license allows this! I am NOT a lawyer or other legal expert OF ANY KIND so evaluate for yourself at your own risk!

 

[rocketdued]

i do have this to say about orbiter. i think the textures are great on the space shuttle and the international space station. the earh textures could be a little better. maybe thats just my video card not sure. also the space shuttles cockpit looks like the real deal. as i have seen space shuttle cockpit mock up's at the space center in houston texas. but i think it's really lacking in the control department. i have tried land the space shuttle at the houston space center. and it handeld nothing like orbiter at all. the controls were smooth to operate now like orbiters controls ya touch the num2 key and the shuttle goes to the moon. i think maybe i'll give this simulation one more try with the deltaglider and if i can't get it i will try something else.

 

[Woo482]

Have you tried using a joystick? using one should help you have more control of the vehicle when flying,though the shuttle is pretty difficult for a beginner to land anyway. and the shuttle lands at Kennedy Space Centre, not Houston

 

[rocketdued]

yes i know it lands at kennedy space center. but what im talking about is differrent. houston is a space museum and they have a simulator called land the shuttle. and yes i have tried flying with a joystick. i have the saitek x-52 flight control system. and it didn't matter wether i used that or the keyboard. the deltaglider was still nose heavy. now maybe im takeing off to slowly i don't know. but i was only able to get it into orbit once. and then it was a large egg shaped orbit. maybe i should start completely from scratch with the add-on deltaglider and not the defaul one maybe the default one has a glitch no one can find.

 

[Woo482]

My mistake on the space centre then. I still don't see why no one would've found this nose heavy glitch in the delta glider by now though? :huh: The source code for the DG is available in the SDK if you'd like to try and find it yourself though :thumbup:

 

[garyw]

maybe the default one has a glitch no one can find.

No, it doesn't. I'd say that 85-95% of people coming to Orbiter learn using the DG and they cope with it just fine.

 

[rocketdued]

well then it's my take off speed. maybe my control senseitives are set to high.

 

[garyw]

well then it's my take off speed. maybe my control senseitives are set to high.

Make a video. Several people provided links and advice. Just once, read what people have written and do it.

 

[rocketdued]

thats what im trying to do. but it's on seperate pc's that this is takeing place. one's just for my simulations with no web connection. and the other for internet email and messenger's

---------- Post added at 03:40 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:37 AM ----------

will cam studio work on windows 7 64 bit home premuim though? im looking at the site for it but i havn't seen a windows 7 version.

---------- Post added at 04:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:40 AM ----------

ok here's something i havn't asked yet. how many pepole are useing the stockdeltaglider. and how many are useing the add-on to fly the dg to iss checklist flight?

 

[Aeadar]

I've not used the stock DG in years, but;



DG to orbit 1



DG to orbit 2



Main engine cut-off, waiting for apoapsis to circularize my orbit. No negative pitch at any point thanks to elevator (up) trim.

 

[Kveldulf]

I'd wager everyone here can fly the stock DG into orbit just fine. For kicks though, give me 10 minutes. I'll fly into orbit.

 

[rocketdued]

well that must be what im doing wrong then. cause my speed's not that high at that altitude. mine's like 800 kmh. maybe iim pitching up to early and not getting enough speed? maybe i need to extend the length of my leg befor pitching up for more speed?

 

[Aeadar]

I did do a shallower climb than I'd intended, maintaining about 50-60% thrust till about 25k altitude, then full thrust and elevator trim to keep a small positive pitch.

Keep at it. You'll get there.

 

[rocketdued]

yeah i extended the take off roll. untill reaching 200 kmh and im useing shallow nose up trim and i got speed of 1.178 right now at 23.26 and still climbing. now i think i was trying to climb to high all at once with out speed. so im going to see if at 250 km altitude i can coast to 300 and push prograde and see what happens.

 

[Tex]

yeah i extended the take off roll. untill reaching 200 kmh and im useing shallow nose up trim and i got speed of 1.178 right now at 23.26 and still climbing. now i think i was trying to climb to high all at once with out speed. so im going to see if at 250 km altitude i can coast to 300 and push prograde and see what happens.

So, the problem is clearly not with the DG or the simulation. You're a flight sim veteran, what happens when you try to climb too fast with too little speed in any aircraft? The nose gets heavy, it responds sluggishly, and eventually falls out of the sky. Sound familiar?

 

[rocketdued]

yeah it's called a stall.

 

[Carmen A]

well theres not a free way to make a video so thats out. don't make me say that again. now the manual says to rotate @100kmh so i do step 2 is turning right to 140 opn the hearding. i do. step 3 pitch up to 70 degrees nose up pitch. ok i got that part. but then at 1,600 kelomiters every thing goes south from there. the flight path indicator drops to negative 10 degrees. and the next thing i see is my space craft buringup. because for somereason it's skipping of the atmosphere like a stone. it does this twice then gets a huge egg shaped orbit thats no where near what i need.

Tex is correct - remember stall speed INCREASES with altitude because the air is thinner the further you go higher. Don't be surprised hearing about heavily laden XR5s carrying 600-800 tons of cargo into space flying at Mach 10 at an AoA of 30 degrees at an altitude of 60-70km.

In this case even Mach 10 is not enough for the giant vehicle to maintain level flight without constantly burning rocket fuel. At the edge of the atmosphere, if you still want to continue using aerodynamic lift to help your ascent to orbit, you have to be going very, very fast at the final moments of your time in the air.

If you're not fast enough to hold altitude then just level out or enter a slight dive and accelerate such as real life Mach 3 recon aircraft like the SR-71 Blackbird do. Manage your energy, don't just expect the machine to do the work for you. This is not Star Wars.

A rough guide for my XR flights -

0-20km - steep "unlimited" climb on main engines out of dense air. 70-80% throttle at 60 degrees, speed subsonic to Mach 1.5 from takeoff

30-50km - begin leveling out, start ramming air into the scramjets to get them to operating pressure. Scrams become self-sustaining at Mach 5.0 at an altitude of 40km. Speed will rise in this level acceleration phase from 1000-4000m/s.

50-80km - the XR ships have sci fi scramjets capable of reaching Mach 21 (almost 6,500 m/s). I can either continue to cruise at the edges of atmosphere at this sub-orbital speed, or give her a burst of main engines and reach orbital velocity (7.5+km/s)

The unique advantage of a sci fi spaceplane (like DG or XR) is that you can cruise in atmosphere instead of doing a ballistic launch like the Shuttle.

If a spaceplane ascent profile like above is too complex then I suggest learning how to launch into orbit by riding rockets on autopilot or basic manual control. Try Shuttle Atlantis, it has a very simple and foolproof ascent procedure designed to get the ship out of atmosphere (vertical launch) and get it up to speed so it won't fall back to Earth (levelling out in the stratosphere and in pre-orbital altitudes, and managing ascent rate).

The main advantage of learning orbital flight using realistic spacecraft is... if it worked in real life for the past 30-60 years, it will in Orbiter.

 

[Linguofreak]

will cam studio work on windows 7 64 bit home premuim though? im looking at the site for it but i havn't seen a windows 7 version.

You don't even need to make a video per-se. You can just hit F4 in sim, click the Record/Play button, and then hit "record" in the window it brings up. When you're done with your flight, hit "stop" in the recording window, then exit Orbiter. You will then need to make a post on the forums with four files as attachments, they are:

[your orbiter directory]\Scenarios\Playback\Mission 1 - DG to ISS.scn
[your orbiter directory]\Flights\Mission 1 - DG to ISS\GL-01.atc
[your orbiter directory]\Flights\Mission 1 - DG to ISS\GL-01.att
[your orbiter directory]\Flights\Mission 1 - DG to ISS\GL-01.pos

To upload the atc, att, and pos files as attachments you'll need to make a copy with .txt added to the end of the file name (e.g: GL-01.atc.txt), or the forum won't accept them.

(Note to forum staff: Could *.atc, *.att, and *.pos files be added as allowed attachment types, given that they are pretty much just plain text files with an extension other than *.txt, and that they are an Orbiter file type that people might want to upload?)

This will allow anyone here to play your flight back in Orbiter and see what you're doing wrong.

Furthermore, I've made a playback of a flight to orbit that you can watch. Put the scn file in [your orbiter directory]\Scenarios\Playback\

Put the other three files in [your orbiter directory]\Flights\Mission 1 - DG to ISS

Make sure to strip off the .txt ending to the filenames so that they end in atc, att, and pos, or else I'm pretty sure they won't play. Then open up Orbiter and open the Playbacks | Mission 1 - DG to ISS scenario. The playback should start running as soon as Orbiter loads.

I forgot to start recording immediately, so the flight begins right after takeoff (still over the runway). Also, I wasn't paying attention when I got to orbit, and made my engine cutoff a bit late, so my apogee is higher than it should be for a flight to the ISS (but just fine if all you want to do is get into orbit). It doesn't really matter since I didn't launch at the right time for an ISS launch anyways.

View attachment GL-01.atc.txt

View attachment GL-01.att.txt

View attachment GL-01.pos.txt

View attachment Mission 1 - DG to ISS.scn