General Question fastest way to fly to the moon and other planets?

You've also got these which will put you on the moon in minutes:

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If you want to go down that route then you have to try this:

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And, back in the real world, New horizons took nine hours to pass the orbit of the moon.
 
Guys, it's a tad more complex than "you can't go to the Moon in 2 hours, that's silly". While the responses here are applicable and correct in one way or another, getting to the Moon in 2 hours is physically possible, but it's just very, very hard to do, and not at all practical unless you have some seriously futuristic technology.

Firstly, we know the Moon has an average distance from Earth of around 384 399 000 meters. And we want to get there within 2 hours, or 7200 seconds.

The following equation is from the Atomic Rockets Torchship page.

A = (4 * D) / T^2

A = Acceleration.
D = Distance.
T= Time.

If I calculated correctly, that is a required acceleration of 29.66 m/s^2. Earth's gravity is 9.806m/s^2, so that is roughly 3 Gs.

Now that we know the acceleration that our ship and crew will have to endure, we must calculate the dV as well.

transitDeltaV = 2 * sqrt[ D * A ]

A = Acceleration.
D = Distance.
transitDeltaV= Delta V requirement.

Which gives a required dV of 213 550 m/s. Lunar orbital velocity is 1 000 m/s and we need to match that, so 214 550 m/s (214.5 km/s).

Which is a lot. No current rocket engine has a high enough exhaust velocity to reach that DeltaV at an achievable mass ratio. An engine with an exhaust velocity of 100-200 km/s could achieve that DeltaV with a mass ratio of 8.54 to 2.92, respectively.

We do however have theoretical drive systems that could have that performance. That sort of exhaust velocity is achievable by a fusion drive, but is over what can be achieved by a nuclear gas or solid core design.

The problem is, we can't build a drive like that yet. We have yet to build a fusion powerplant that can achieve breakeven; even a fusion rocket with a thrust of a few kilonewtons is impossible currently. And the drive needed to accelerate this spacecraft will certainly have a thrust level above a few kilonewtons; to accelerate a 100 ton spacecraft, the 200 km/s engine will need a thrust of 12 meganewtons; the 100 km/s engine will need a thrust of 28 meganewtons.

Now, that amount of thrust is relatively easy to achieve with a chemical rocket with an exhaust velocity of 3-4km/s, but for a fusion rocket with an exhaust velocity of 100-200 km/s, it is a different story. The 200 km/s, 12 meganewton engine would have an output power of 1.2 terawatts; the 100 km/s, 28 meganewton engine would have an output power of 1.4 terawatts.

In comparison, the Saturn V's first stage had an output power of 0.115 terawatts, or 115 gigawatts. A terawatt is a lot of power; the entirely of human civilisation, as of 2010, uses 16 terawatts of power. And large output powers present waste heat problems as well; this means large, heavy engines and radiators.

The velocity problems are compounded by the acceleration problem; 3 Gs is quite a high acceleration, and higher accelerations means more spacecraft mass (lest it crumple in on itself once the engine switches on). And of course, more mass, equals more fuel, equals more total mass for the engine to propel, equals a more powerful engine... it is a nasty vicious cycle.

And from a point of crew comfort 3 G is pretty bad as well... I mean, sure astronauts can handle that sort of acceleration during launch, for a few minutes, but this is a far longer period of time. It might be survivable if the crew was strapped horizontally into seats, but it would still be highly uncomfortable.

So physically possible, yes. Technologically possible, not at present, but potentially in future. Practical? I seriously doubt it.
 
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Dropping things down to 1 G makes it easier... it brings the DeltaV into the capability of gas core engines, with a mass ratio of 11.89 for an exhaust velocity of 50 km/s. To accelerate a spacecraft of 100 tons at those figures would take 13 meganewtons, and at an exhaust velocity of 50 km/s, that is an output power of "only" 325 gigawatts.
 
Except that you cannot lift off on Earth without going over 1G with the acceleration.
 
That's why the lunar ferry waits in orbit, and the passengers arrive via spaceplane. ;)

Making the ferry landable on Earth and/or the Moon makes things far more difficult. For example, while such a high impulse drive will be relatively harmless in open space, it will have very nasty effects on a landing pad, not to mention likely approximating an explosion when within an atmosphere.

All rockets do that, but something tells me this one will be particularly bad. :shifty:
 
Because it is force that is responsible for acceleration.

And because you have more than one option to deal with gravity. You don't need to fight it, you can also just tolerate it.

if you would for example launch by a magnetic sled, you would also not need to exceed one g. Or by using a launch loop. Or a space elevator.
 
No civilian plane exceeds 1g ;)

Are you really sure? Maybe you should take an accelerometer on an airliner and watch the readings during liftoff?
I bet a chocolate that it will go above 1G, otherwise your plane is never going to move.
Edit: try to lift off from a runway with an XR spaceplane instead, should be cheaper than buying an airline ticket and an accelerometer.


You exceed 1G whenever you start walking, go ride a bike, or take a train, bus, or drive a car. Whenever you change your speed on Earth surface by accelerating or braking (in a typical fashion), the resulting acceleration will be higher than 1G.

Now if we were to take 1.1-1.3G, that's reasonable for getting from A to B in a finite amount of time.
 
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You exceed 1G whenever you start walking, go ride a bike, or take a train, bus, or drive a car. Whenever you change your speed on Earth surface by accelerating or braking (in a typical fashion), the resulting acceleration will be higher than 1G.


As far as I can tell, flying in a leveled manner reduces the amount of g-forces experienced, but only slightly. Being only a simulator pilot and not having a command of maths/physics involved, all I can say is I feel there is something wrong with what you said.
 
As you accelerate in a runway takeoff, the total sum of the accelerations (with or without lift and drag) will be higher than 1G. You will be pushed to the bottom of your seat by 1G and to the back of the seat by whatever horizontal acceleration the engines are giving you.

You might be under 1G acceleration if you're moving at takeoff speed (constant!) along the runway. But you will need to go over 1G again if you're hoping to get your wheels off the surface.

Sure, you'll be having 1G in a level flight. Or even slightly less than that, depending on your speed (might be something like 0.98G on a Concorde). But to get there, you need to exceed it. And anytime you pitch up or whenever you want your vertical speed to rise, you'll need to apply some acceleration which will get the vector size above 1.

If you want to ascend to orbit with the lowest G-load (constant throughout the whole flight), the time taken goes above all limits as the acceleration approaches one.

Another option is flying through the Earth. 1G could still get you somewhere, then.
 
So you mean the entire sum of accelerations, including gravity?

It doesn't work that way... at least in this case, the acceleration is coming from the engines...

EDIT:

Also, I doubt that the XR2 approximates a civillian plane. ;)
 
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You exceed 1G whenever you start walking, go ride a bike, or take a train, bus, or drive a car. Whenever you change your speed on Earth surface by accelerating or braking (in a typical fashion), the resulting acceleration will be higher than 1G.

Now if we were to take 1.1-1.3G, that's reasonable for getting from A to B in a finite amount of time.

If you go by the sum of magnitudes of all forces: yes. Easily. Even just walking slowly means you have more than 1 g acceleration then (weight force + resistance + propulsion).

What I mean is acceleration by propulsion. A plane does not need to accelerate at more than 1 g for leaving ground.

Also, acceleration as "rate of change of velocity" is again something else- the Space Shuttle lifts off with just 0.5g acceleration then. The sum of all forces on the astronauts sums up to an acceleration with the magnitude of 1.5 g.


A plane does not need the engines to have more thrust force than the weight force of a plane, to lift off, by letting the force work horizontal instead of vertical. That is all.
 
a minute with this:
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if you can stear it precise enough.
:lol:
it seems nstearable.
most spaceflights to moon are done by using orbital mechanism and so on, even with 10000000000000kn-thrusters you would need the same time as with 10kn-thrusters in this way, but this ship can fly to moon without orbital mechanism...
 
Uh... yes, even Brachistochrone trajectories are a kind of orbital mechanism... sortof.

They're just radically alien when compared with hohmann trajectories and such.
 
You need to differentiate between forces and accelerations. "1g" is a unit of acceleration. An object sitting on the ground doesn't experience a "gravitational force of 1g" - that's nonsense. Instead, it has an acceleration of 0g - in other words, the sum of forces cancels - in this case, gravitational force pointing down, and the ground pushing up, resisting your sinking into the floor). When you start rolling, you accelerate, but this acceleration may well be < 1g.

Likewise, if you drop out of an airplane in free-fall (disregarding atmospheric friction), you accelerate at 1g, because the only force acting is gravity (until you release your parachute or hit the ground). However, you yourself (sitting in the accelerated system) feel weightless.
 
jus found my "lunar mission taking a week problem"... it turns out i didnt reset my mission launch timer before i set off, so it included the 5 days i sat on the runway for no reason whatsoever. it turns out i can do a full mission in just over 2 days, a round trip takes about a week (im not sure how to get a quick return leg)

XR-2 FTW! try doing it with no bay tanks, that gives you a fright as you land with just 1% fuel remaining :lol:
 
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