Question Feasibility of an "International Lunar Base"?

[sorindafabico]

Despite the setbacks and the high cost, I believe that the ISS can be considered a success in the fields of engineering and cooperation. On the other hand, I think it only makes sense to return to the Moon is to build some kind of research station there - an Apollo reloaded would be pointless.

This topic is to discuss the feasibility of a "ILB", costs and engineering challenges involved, what could be researched and done on-site, the logistics, and how it would help space exploration.



PS: Don't know if it's better to put here or in the Basement.

 

[Urwumpe]

Technically feasible: Yes, absolutely. There are thousands of ways already how to configure such a base.
Financially feasible: Yes, even despite the economic crisis
Economically feasible: Yes, it could even bring economic growth if properly handled.
Politically feasible: No way.

And there it stops.

Seriously, the only problem that speaks against a ILB is a lack of political will. nobody wants to be responsible for it, nobody wants to share the fame if built and nobody wants to explain his voters why builing a ILB is necessary and good for them all.

We live in a world, in which stupidity is cultivated. Voters are caught with simple slogans and simple "truthisms", because if you can't explain your message in a 30 second TV spot, you aren't elected. The complexity of the real world is so much shoved aside to experts to handle them, that nobody even dares to discuss reality in politics. We only discuss a political world, that exists independent of the real problems.

And now we come and want to tell the world, that a moonbase is good. I am no Wernher von Braun, who was a better spaceflight salesman than all US citizens of his time together. Are you? We would need somebody like him. Who believes in a vision, knows how to share this vision with millions, can inspire millions and who can fight for this vision, even with dirty tricks and plain stamina, if needed.

If somebody can solve the political problem, the rest is just gravity.

 

[ADSWNJ]

Technically feasible: Yes, absolutely. There are thousands of ways already how to configure such a base.
Financially feasible: Yes, even despite the economic crisis
Economically feasible: Yes, it could even bring economic growth if properly handled.
Politically feasible: No way.

And there it stops. {...}

If somebody can solve the political problem, the rest is just gravity.

Great post, Urwumpe. It made me think about that political dimension. In the Apollo-Soyuz timeframe, the rendezvous of those spaceships was an act of superpower detante that arguably has led to 30+ years of space cooperation between the ex-USSR states and the USA.

Looking at the geo-political situation today, I think we have building global trade concerns, nationalistic talk about repatriating jobs / imposing tariffs / blocking competition, and genuine concerns in the USA about losing their position of leadership in space.

I'm sure lots here on this forum would love to see an ILB as a galvanizing project to bring nations back together for the good of mankind. Neil Armstrong would have approved, I think!

 

[garyw]

Personally, what I've never understood is why most nations want to go it alone. Space is expensive so rather than NASA and ESA spending out money for a human rated capsule why not work together?

I'd love to see the first world nations club together and contribe something like 0.5% of GDP to a central budget for space travel. That budget would then be spent by an outsourced organisation that has goals agreed by all the participating nations. Imagine what we could accomplish with something like that in place...

On a more humourous note we could build it on Wideawake and name it the 'International Space Agency'.......... :thumbup:

 

[Urwumpe]

Personally, what I've never understood is why most nations want to go it alone. Space is expensive so rather than NASA and ESA spending out money for a human rated capsule why not work together?

I'd love to see the first world nations club together and contribe something like 0.5% of GDP to a central budget for space travel. That budget would then be spent by an outsourced organisation that has goals agreed by all the participating nations. Imagine what we could accomplish with something like that in place...

On a more humourous note we could build it on Wideawake and name it the 'International Space Agency'.......... :thumbup:

I think for that, we should first found the "International Space Party" ISP. :rofl: (or for better branding: [math]I_{sp}[/math] )

What about some challenge to the masters of video here... produce a 30 second clip why we should build a moonbase. And then we select the best clip and apply for crowdfunding, so we can show it on the next superbowl. :thumbup:

 

[Mattyv]

Personally, what I've never understood is why most nations want to go it alone. Space is expensive so rather than NASA and ESA spending out money for a human rated capsule why not work together?

I think it's probably because each nation/space agency wants full control over their own capsule, rather than sharing it with someone else.

 

[FADEC]

I think we won't ever see any kind of lunar base. It's more likely to see humans on Mars one day.

 

[Codz]

I think we won't ever see any kind of lunar base. It's more likely to see humans on Mars one day.

A Lunar Outpost would be a stepping stone to Mars.

 

[FADEC]

A Lunar Outpost would be a stepping stone to Mars.

Rather a stumbling stone which prevents doing anything else.

If we want to fly to Mars, we should start doing so without expensive and pointless detours. The Moon has no atmosphere, and it's only two days away. Flying to, and landing and living on Mars, is a completely different scenario. Flying to the Moon is an easy game which we've done already half a decade ago.

 

[T.Neo]

A Lunar Outpost would be a stepping stone to Mars.

Could be a stepping stone to Mars, provided the right goals, funding and support. 'Moon base as a stepping stone to Mars' has been the buzzword for the last decade or so, but the truth is that a lunar outpost can just as easily suck up decades and billions, as it could provide useful developments and data for Mars missions.

 

[PeriapsisPrograde]

Flying to the Moon is an easy game which we've done already half a decade ago.

Emphasis mine.

What did I miss? :blink:

 

[BruceJohnJennerLawso]

I think for that, we should first found the "International Space Party" ISP. :rofl: (or for better branding: [math]I_{sp}[/math] )

What about some challenge to the masters of video here... produce a 30 second clip why we should build a moonbase. And then we select the best clip and apply for crowdfunding, so we can show it on the next superbowl. :thumbup:

That... actually sounds like a good idea, although, how much does 30 secs during superbowl time cost? BTW love the party name :lol:

 

[Tychonaut]

Emphasis mine.

What did I miss? :blink:

You must have been busy. In a rare show of bipartisanship, US legislators suspended selected laws of physics so a monster truck rally could be held on Mare Imbrium. Alas, there was a 14-day sunset clause...

Seriously, though, I would love to see an actual lunar base in operation. To look up at the Moon and know there are humans there, all the time, would be fantastic.
However, as was pointed out above, there's the lack of any political will to do it. Also pointed out above, if there was such a will I doubt the funds would be forthcoming to make it a real research base that could contribute to future goals. More likely, it would turn into a survival exercise, as astronauts struggle to keep their underfunded base going until the next supply delivery.

I like the ISP idea. I predict the first party schism would be: seconds vs. metres/second.

 

[jangofett287]

...More likely, it would turn into a survival exercise, as astronauts struggle to keep their underfunded base going until the next supply delivery...

That sounds like a great idea for a TV Sho-- Ohwait...

 

[Urwumpe]

That... actually sounds like a good idea, although, how much does 30 secs during superbowl time cost?

Only a few millions, as much as I can tell. Only for the air time.

 

[BruceJohnJennerLawso]

You must have been busy. In a rare show of bipartisanship, US legislators suspended selected laws of physics so a monster truck rally could be held on Mare Imbrium. Alas, there was a 14-day sunset clause...

Seriously, though, I would love to see an actual lunar base in operation. To look up at the Moon and know there are humans there, all the time, would be fantastic.
However, as was pointed out above, there's the lack of any political will to do it. Also pointed out above, if there was such a will I doubt the funds would be forthcoming to make it a real research base that could contribute to future goals. More likely, it would turn into a survival exercise, as astronauts struggle to keep their underfunded base going until the next supply delivery.

I like the ISP idea. I predict the first party schism would be: seconds vs. metres/second.

You know, I actually think a lunar base idea would catch on very quickly with the public. One of the issues inherent with getting funding for say, the ISS, is that it lacks the "real for me" factor with the general public. Ive never seen the ISS with my own eyes, and while I do believe that it is up there, the inability to know exactly where it is, makes it less of a real place than an an abstraction to me on the ground. A lunar base, however, would be something that people could look up into the sky and say ``its right there`` (not to mention there probably could be ways of making the site visible from earth with a modest telescope-no way to really dispute its existence then)

Only a few millions, as much as I can tell. Only for the air time.

not to scrap the idea, if youre actually really set on trying to buy superbowl ad time, but why not forget that & simply try to produce a high quality video (in orbiter of course, but we can use post-production effects like lense flare, etc.) that outlines the possibilities and reasons for building a lunar base

:yes:

 

[sunshine135]

Your biggest issue isn't the nations working together. That has been proven in Antarctica and at the ISS. What is problematic is always the answer to the question: Who will provide the funding? Typically, that battle is an internal one. This is why I maintain, you will never truly have regular Spaceflight until someone can profit from it. If Curiosity scratched at the Martian surface and found a million ton monolith of solid gold, how long would it take for a man to land on Mars?

 

[hedzup456]

About the 9-month period it'd take to get there. Plus a day or two to get enough petrol to fly my dads car there...

 

[jedidia]

Personally, what I've never understood is why most nations want to go it alone.

Probably because the only real gain a politician can see in spaceflight is national prestige...

 

[PeriapsisPrograde]

If Curiosity scratched at the Martian surface and found a million ton monolith of solid gold, how long would it take for a man to land on Mars?

The value of gold would go way, way down.