News Flash: Whos is right? Apple or Adobe?

But once you got an ATM card and figured out how convenient it was, banks started charging for its use, and charging you for some lobby services.

Wait, what? you guys have to pay to use ATMs over there?? The only time I pay for using the ATM is a ridicoulusly small fee when I'm taking money in a foreign country directly from my account (still way cheaper than transfering the money to a local account first).
I never heared of lobby services being billed either. Must be some weird banks over there...
 
Offtopic:

I have to pay if I use the ATM of a bank not allied with my own bank...since my bank is a state bank ("Braunschweiger Landessparkasse") and part of a larger network of other such state banks, that happens only rarely and mostly at train stations, which have mostly strange international ATM providers there.
 
maybe you should read here, instead of stuttering so much nonsense about what HTML version 5 actually is not.

http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html

Also, the video standard will likely become H.264, this is not decided yet.

Firefox said outright it will NOT use H264 unless it is made free and clear. If firefox wont support it it wont become a standard as too many people use Firefox.


When most people talk about HTML5 they mean how it relates to flash and how it is supposedly superior because their best friend Apple decides to play war with Adobe because their A4 chip is crap and cant handle Flash 10.1 for some reason.

Remember folks Flash 10.1 isn't out yet. Once it is out its going to put a slew of new pressure on Apple as device after device starts to support it. Apple also is facing an gov inquiry in the US based on their SDK actions.

Thanks for that link tho I have been meaning to check out all the new tags.
 
Firefox said outright it will NOT use H264 unless it is made free and clear. If firefox wont support it it wont become a standard as too many people use Firefox.

You might be surprised that exactly this condition is currently addressed by Microsoft, Google and Apple, who want H.264 as standard format. Without being patent-safe, it can't be included in a W3C standard, Firefox has less power over the web in that context as many think.

Practically, unless a new codec appears out of nowhere, it will be only between Ogg Theora and H.264 for becoming the new web standard. Apple tries the good old patent pool threat against Ogg Theora, but I am pretty sure, many people remember the last patent pool threat, that was positioned by Microsoft against Linux...
 
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Google is playing both sides tho they may have a right to IF they let loose and free their VP8 codec from ON2 tech (Same guys who made theora) who they aquired recently and what the tech rumors say they will.

H264 is nowhere near free and clear. Its under a relatively free to use license until 2016 but can be revoked and from what I understand retroactively demand royalties.

Firefox has plenty of power to deny this standard. Firefox works in more computers and places than any from those big 3. Webkit is used in mobile devices but its not widespread enough to be called a competitor.
 
So then your real issue is with the business cases surrounding various flavours of video delivery... but HTML5 is to blame?

Dude, if you worked in tech I would not hire you until you put down the holy water.
 
Outside of the geek world, people don't care or understand about standards, versions, flash or javascript. They care about performance and functions.

If a device can show Youtube videos and web pages correctly, people will buy it. If it can't or if they need to install stuff, configure settings, etc, to make it work, most people will just ignore it.

On the other hand, I don't see any sites getting redone whatever html5 can or can't do.
And regarding Flash speed, well, Javascript is much slower to move a simple text box on a page, so it isn't even an option to Flash. If some flash stuff is processor heavy, it's up to bad programing and noting more.
 
Wait, what? you guys have to pay to use ATMs over there?? The only time I pay for using the ATM is a ridicoulusly small fee when I'm taking money in a foreign country directly from my account (still way cheaper than transfering the money to a local account first).
I never heared of lobby services being billed either. Must be some weird banks over there...

We are not so far away from an era where banks will start charging investors for managing their money instead of paying dividends and interests.
 
Outside of the geek world, people don't care or understand about standards, versions, flash or javascript. They care about performance and functions.

If a device can show Youtube videos and web pages correctly, people will buy it. If it can't or if they need to install stuff, configure settings, etc, to make it work, most people will just ignore it.

Correct. But that's why it is up to the geek world to both provide that kind of user functionality while also building sound technology. By embracing and promoting the good standards and practices amongst ourselves this can be done.

On the other hand, I don't see any sites getting redone whatever html5 can or can't do.

Youtube has an HTML5 player which you can use right now if you opt into it. Other sites have begun testing out HTML5 as well. And certainly within my office we're already working with ways to implement HTML 5 features in a sound, fallbacky-ready, way. The neat thing with HTML5 is that it is EXTREMELY easy to write degrading HTML5 what works in HTML4/XHTML supportive environments.

And regarding Flash speed, well, Javascript is much slower to move a simple text box on a page, so it isn't even an option to Flash. If some flash stuff is processor heavy, it's up to bad programing and noting more.

Flash is fast? Weird, I think that the giant, monolithic, binary file download for complicated swfs is somewhat heavy most of the time. There's also a much bigger impact on flash sites due to clients with older systems. Even if you are a good coder there are plenty of times where it isn't code that is your issue. For example, if you are a designer and you like to use alpha blending... alot. You're gonna slow down your site experience a fair bit for people with lightweight machines.

Javascript on the other hand is inherently lightweight to begin with and with minimization techniques + caching of the text files means you can REALLY speed up your javascript. Of course, like Flash though, lots of flair and you will slow right now.


But. It's maybe worth mentioning that currently I've got a webgl demo-app running here which renders the planet earth with specular, multi-texturing for day and night effects, separate texturing overlays for clouds which are independent of the surface texturing, obj file loading with uvw texturing mapping support so you can go right from your modeling software to the internet... and the whole thing runs at 100fps+... all in Javascript. I've also got one which renders the earth and moon all to scale... 100+fps in a browser.


The fact of the matter is this though. Both Flash and Javascript have their place as tools in the toolkit. Flash is far less desirable though because of the artificially high cost of development. When the next gen of HTML/JS/CSS stuff gets into release versions of browsers Flash's foothold is seriously compromised. Until now the ONLY thing justifying the extra cost of Flash has been its ability to do things HTML couldn't. This will end soon and then Adobe will be in a tough spot being a closed source version of what other can now do for free.

Apple, for their part, will be fine because now they can tell Flash to take a hike and just encourage people to develop using those other tools... which they are already well on their way to doing. Incidentally, this has caused a bit of a trend where clients asking for mobile sites no longer get fancy device specific apps... it is now much much cheaper to just make a HTML site formatted for mobile plus you get coverage on way more handsets for way less hassle. epic win.
 
Wait, what? you guys have to pay to use ATMs over there?? The only time I pay for using the ATM is a ridicoulusly small fee when I'm taking money in a foreign country directly from my account (still way cheaper than transfering the money to a local account first).
I never heared of lobby services being billed either. Must be some weird banks over there...

I've never heard of lobby services being billed, and every bank and every ATM is different WRT ATM charges. Depending on your bank, and depending on whether you're using your bank's ATM or an independent ATM, and depending who operates your ATM, you might find yourself paying nothing (Generally, but not always, the case at your own banks ATM's), paying a service charge to the bank (often the case when using an independent ATM or a competitor's ATM), or paying a service charge to the ATM operator (also often the case with independent ATM's or ATM's at banks where you don't hold an account), or both.
 
So then your real issue is with the business cases surrounding various flavours of video delivery... but HTML5 is to blame?

Dude, if you worked in tech I would not hire you until you put down the holy water.

HTML 5 failed to specify a video codec standard. Leaving it to the wolves to fight it out.

Adobe just works.

I don't work in tech I work in grocery :hello:

Edit: Also apple will be fine? They are facing a gov inquiry about their lockout (A curiosity that few people here mention) Patient infringement lawsuits (Have to just laugh at that one with their statements about theora)

Youtube has its HTML5 player. Its not even worth watching cat videos on. Of course no fullscreen on my browser. (Maybe Firefox does not want to open the option for ads to fullscreen popup videos about whatever)
 
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HTML 5 failed to specify a video codec standard. Leaving it to the wolves to fight it out.

Adobe just works.
Using Flash to watch video is like using a semi truck and tractor trailer to do your weekly grocery shopping.
 
Sure as hell beats having to use some random player or hard to install player or 3 different players per page.
Yeah, but with the HTML5 <video> tag, you won't have to do that...
 
Yeah, but with the HTML5 <video> tag, you won't have to do that...

Unless its H264 in which case I would have to use some kind of HTML5 to VLC or whatever plugin assuming there isnt some darn DRM measure that prevents such.

Also how can flash be considered a truck when it can run on a cell phone? Sure webGL likely kicks its butt at 3D rendering but for video Flash 10.1 just works.

I will admit tho I am going to be neutral on the subject if and when Google lets loose and free the VP8 codec. The change to see google break the back of the MPEG-LA cartel would be too sweet to not cheer for.
 
Unless its H264 in which case I would have to use some kind of HTML5 to VLC or whatever plugin assuming there isnt some darn DRM measure that prevents such.

The same with Flash, so you can't really use this as argument. And if H.264 gets used as web standard officially, this wouldn't be needed. Also, HTML5 allows selecting the animation format, so you can always override the selection anyway. If your favorite codec becomes standard, there is no guarantee you can watch all movies anyway without plug-ins.

HTML5 just permits more freedom for the browsers in the plug-in design, for example having special plug-in classes for media types.

Also how can flash be considered a truck when it can run on a cell phone? Sure webGL likely kicks its butt at 3D rendering but for video Flash 10.1 just works.

Is more a sign how the processing power of smart phones improved over the years.
 
That hardware would not be able to be used to Flash 10.1 wasnt about to come out.

Using the GPU in a highly efficient manner to handle video is what is going to bring Flash back to the forefront. The delays have given its critits like apple headroom. However that wont last long when people with cell phones can use flash when the Ipad and Iphones cant.
 
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