Project G42-200 StarLiner

[HarvesteR]

@Urwumpe: I don't think this craft will have the same crew configuration as the shuttle.. there might not be a commander post, and the pilot is in charge of all flight related stuff...

I do agree on the stall warning though. A control saturation light would be far more useful...
Something that can tell you if you're approaching max deflection (i.e. on reentry), and won't be able to keep attitude anymore. Could be as simple as a light that blinks ever faster and beeps, or something more fancy, like a progress bar of sorts (like in Attitude MFD).

About the FMC though, it does look a little oversized... and I wonder... what exactly is it's purpose, since the MFDs will be doing all the flight planning and all?

My guess: It keeps the left seat crew member from becoming bored, since he doesn't seem to do much. Maybe it's got Minecraft installed? :rofl: It also keeps him busy enough to not touch anything he isn't supposed to.

Cheers

 

[Urwumpe]

@Urwumpe: I don't think this craft will have the same crew configuration as the shuttle.. there might not be a commander post, and the pilot is in charge of all flight related stuff...

Maybe not the same - but if you perform similar tasks, you always will also come out with similar organization structures. On the shuttle you have pretty much the same crew setup as on a modern airliner, and similar duties of pilot and commander, compared to senior pilot and copilot.

 

[Moach]

Maybe not the same - but if you perform similar tasks, you always will also come out with similar organization structures. On the shuttle you have pretty much the same crew setup as on a modern airliner, and similar duties of pilot and commander, compared to senior pilot and copilot.

i should probably clear out that the guy sitting on the left sit is not a copilot or mission commander, but instead, the flight engineer :hmm:

he/she(/it?) does the same job as that guy who used to ride in the side-facing seat on the back of the concorde pit, the only difference, the G42 has no side-facing seat, and has a minimal flight crew of only 2, so now he can ride "shotgun" :lol:



and the purpose of the FMC console, is to provide a way for the crew to input things to those MFD's... every now and then, some MFD "pops up" with that type-in prompt... that would be an orbiter analog of the use of that nice keypad :thumbup:

i have actually figured out a way to hack into the unexposed orbiter function that shows that pop-up using a detour library, so in theory, we could actually go as far as to implement that FMC functionality oh: - but it's a dirty trick, and doesn't feel very "right" to do it... :lol:

other than that, it calculates fuel reserves, coordinates the flight-plan and ascent... you know... all that stuff an FMC is supposed to do

 

[Grover]

how will you get FMC useability into orbiter? thats like an addon in itself

 

[Moach]

how will you get FMC useability into orbiter? thats like an addon in itself

with a LOT of patience and by parts, one at a time :lol:


i have no illusions that i'll be able to pull it all of in one go... that's why i plan to release WIP versions and stable builds whenever i reach any upload-worthy milestone...

but it's good to have a road-map so we don't get lost... there's no price for knowing what you're doing


so here's more cockpit!
http://www.moachcraft.xpg.com.br/G422-pit/g422-pit-detail.swf


we now have a qwerty keypad on the FMC, with smaller keys too :thumbup:

i've zoomed out the default view quite a lot, so now you can see more of the cockpit at once... use the right-click zoom option to view closer :tiphat:

 

[Grover]

looking good, but my questions from above (most of them) still go unanswered

 

[Moach]

just a few questions:

1) will the FCS work, and if so, what functions will it carry out?
2)is a "Stall" light really necessary? it will spend 90% of flight time in a place where stalls are impossible
3) why not include fuel loading into the dock re-supply? (read a little later on)
4) are all switches shown in that useable? there sure are a lot, and i cant think of uses for some since they arent labeled
5) why so many lights?

1) at a first release, the FMC will be "implicitly" simulated (read: "not")... :lol:
no, i mean, it'll not feature any interactiveness at that point... but with further releases, it should be gradually implemented... (perhaps it just functions as a locked terminal MFD for running LUA scripts 'till then)

2) the "stall" light has been replaced with the more evolved "FCS SAT" one that Urwumpe suggested :tiphat:

3) fuel loading from the dock could be possible.... i guess i have to add another switch for that, right? :lol:

4) all the switches that are labeled i already know what shall do - so in a general sense, yes, i do plan to implement most of those (or at least the interesting ones)... but same deal as the FMC, one thing at a time :thumbup:

5) you mean lights as in nav-lights? or in those "fault" signs scattered throughout the panel?

oh well... check it out again for the most recent update - most switches are labeled now, and i've moved some stuff around... i'm getting pretty satisfied with it, and modeling should begin soon

 

[Grover]

lights: the switches on the overhead panel

fuel loading: something better than the XR method is ideal, if you havent seen it already, look at FuelTransfer MFD, thats kind of the thing i was thinking of

further thoughts>>>
launch assist: possibly using a velcro droptank for now, real easy to do and works like a charm (as long as the fuel tank is defined as tank 1)

FMC: you mean it will be like the TerminalMFD, but you put commands in through the VC keyboard? in that case keep the input keys short, typing with the mouse is a pain

cant wait to see it man!

 

[jangofett287]

Looking at this it would appear your philosophy is that one can never have enough MFDs and other assorted computermabobs

 

[Grover]

the stock atlantis has 9 MFDs, this only has 6, Martin is the REAL MFD junkie

 

[Moach]

Looking at this it would appear your philosophy is that one can never have enough MFDs and other assorted computermabobs

can you? :lol:

that's preciselly correct :thumbup:


@grover: all those lights are there for a reason, the cockpit itself would have several different combinations to suit various lighting conditions.... plus a bunch of others for the cabin and bay... that's why there are so many :hmm:

not sure about which ones will actually get simulated, but those are what would be available in a "real" G42


as for the keyboard on the FMC... that's mostly there to account for YOUR hability to type things in your keyboard for the MFD's... (which the DG, for instance, seems to overlook)
maybe we don't even have to simulate thoose buttons.... that would be last on my to-do list


just for reference: http://www.moachcraft.xpg.com.br/G422-pit/g422-pit-detail.swf

 

[jangofett287]

Ya, but if you add up all the computer screens (ECAS x5, FCS x1, MFD x6 and COMS/ RADIO x1) you get 13. Like I said, MFDs and other assorted computermabobs.

 

[Izack]

the stock atlantis has 9 MFDs, this only has 6, Martin is the REAL MFD junkie

Atlantis has 10, actually, but one is hidden away and practically unusable.

maybe we don't even have to simulate thoose buttons.... that would be last on my to-do list

That's what I would suggest. Who really wants to click on an onscreen keyboard when there's a hardware board right in front of her?

 

[Grover]

forgive me, my bad

 

[Moach]

Ya, but if you add up all the computer screens (ECAS x5, FCS x1, MFD x6 and COMS/ RADIO x1) you get 13. Like I said, MFDs and other assorted computermabobs.

yeah well... we're in the future, you know :lol: there are LCD's to go around!

and plus even with 5 EICAS panels, it can't show even half of the 12 eicas modes at once... so ideally, there would be even more screens.... :rofl:


but nah, the ones we have are good already :thumbup:


why don't you like screens? they're so nice :lol:

when i went on a trip with my girlfirend and folks to Uruguay a month ago or so, i got a brief chance to peek into the cockpit of both the A319 and the CRJ-900 (and what an excellent little plane that is! :headbang
man, FSX does not suceed in portraying how cool those glass-cockpits look in real-life! - those screens are so large and clean, looks absolutely awesome!

so yes, i like MFD's - (spoke the man who has 3 wide-screen monitors around him at his job)

 

[Wishbone]

Guess a separate caution and warning panel is still needed, in addition to EICAS (I have just had the chance to look through your flash drawing, looks nice!).

 

[Manichean]

Guess a separate caution and warning panel is still needed, in addition to EICAS (I have just had the chance to look through your flash drawing, looks nice!).

In keeping with the whole glass cockpit thing, a diagnostic page on the EICAS would, perhaps, do the job as well. Then again, when you have an onboard computer malfunction, that page would probably be unavailable, so I vote warning lights panel for at least the major subsystems.

Also, I've just noted that the flight engineer has been getting some neat switches and toggles on his side of the cockpit. This is all well and good, however, will we need to regularly switch places between pilot and engineer in order to not become extremely embarrassed while flying this thing? You'll have to keep in mind that we'll basically be flying this plane solo- if, during engine operations, I'll have to switch over to the flight engineer side every few seconds just not to blow up, then that's highly inconvenient.

As far as the input into the FCS goes, I like the way the DGIV handles things. I don't know how well you could adapt that to a QWERTY layout, though, you'd probably have to have a key that toggles between "normal" hotkeys and FCS operations.

 

[Moach]

In keeping with the whole glass cockpit thing, a diagnostic page on the EICAS would, perhaps, do the job as well. Then again, when you have an onboard computer malfunction, that page would probably be unavailable, so I vote warning lights panel for at least the major subsystems.

Also, I've just noted that the flight engineer has been getting some neat switches and toggles on his side of the cockpit. This is all well and good, however, will we need to regularly switch places between pilot and engineer in order to not become extremely embarrassed while flying this thing? You'll have to keep in mind that we'll basically be flying this plane solo- if, during engine operations, I'll have to switch over to the flight engineer side every few seconds just not to blow up, then that's highly inconvenient.

As far as the input into the FCS goes, I like the way the DGIV handles things. I don't know how well you could adapt that to a QWERTY layout, though, you'd probably have to have a key that toggles between "normal" hotkeys and FCS operations.

the "flying solo" thing is a concern of mine....
for one, it'd be so neat to go on and simulate everything... for another, it's a 2-man job done by one :facepalm:

although... several responsabilities of the flight-operator would not be accounted for... including ATC / Comms handling and all that stufff that orbiter doesn't account for....

also, while the TAB key switches left/right seat, you still have your joystick in hand and you control the ship just the same, so it's not as bad as flying it alone in "real life", i think :lol:

the FCS is pretty much last on my TODO list... since the ship can very well fly (and feel fully functional) without it being explicitly simulated
by then, i'll figure it out, but chances are, you'd click anywhere on that panel, and your keyboard gains input focus to the FCS... but for now, it'll have to go "airliners-in-FSX-style"


welll, let me get back to it

 

[Urwumpe]

I start to dislike to large "Kill rot" button or indicator in the center - it is a bit too large for something that is just a status indication for something that is usually good. Maybe you can replace it by an "A/P" or "AUTO" indicator there, that lights up every time the autopilot is controlling the spacecraft attitude... maybe also a second indicator that lits when the autopilot controls the throttle.

The control for enabling a killrot or rotation to wings level would be on the stick - because that is where you need it most.

What you should have pretty prominent as warning lights are the classic big problems of spaceflight:

• [math]\Delta p / \Delta t[/math] - decompression
• Fire
• Toxic atmosphere
• Warning
• Caution

 

[Moach]

I start to dislike to large "Kill rot" button or indicator in the center - it is a bit too large for something that is just a status indication for something that is usually good. Maybe you can replace it by an "A/P" or "AUTO" indicator there, that lights up every time the autopilot is controlling the spacecraft attitude... maybe also a second indicator that lits when the autopilot controls the throttle.

The control for enabling a killrot or rotation to wings level would be on the stick - because that is where you need it most.

What you should have pretty prominent as warning lights are the classic big problems of spaceflight:

• [math]\Delta p / \Delta t[/math] - decompression
• Fire
• Toxic atmosphere
• Warning
• Caution

very well put! - and by coincidence, i just happened to redesign most of that panel in a way that makes much sense with what you've described :tiphat:

check it out: http://www.moachcraft.xpg.com.br/G422-pit/g422-pit-detail.swf


i also changed the purpose of those screens on the corners.. not EICAS anymore, those are the new utility panels (somethin akin to the EFB's on the B777) - then i placed two additional EICAS screens on each side upon the sidewall console, which was otherwise free

let me tend to my model now... it's staring to feel neglected