Project G42-200 StarLiner

[Moach]

with the little that ive managed to learn of C++, i can imagine that it is simpler than other languages, you can just define constants of heating rate, and other parameters, then have each one change independently through user input or feedback from other parameters, and its quite free since you dont have to define them i a particular order or strict way. what i meant was the sheer number of variables that will be floating round, and it one goes "iffy", it could mess up quite a few other systems, then be a pain to find again

im sure you can manage it, the 100 was good stuff, this has potential to top the XRs, and i really mean that. just dont make the sub-systems as complicated as the Dragonfly's, a get-in-and-go mode would be nice (AUTO switch settings are nice)

which just gave me an idea: perhaps you could implement the AUTO settings, then make two vessel modes: noob and pro (names to be evaluated ), in noob scenario,s everything is automated for you (or near enough) and in pro, you need to handle the sub-systems as well

looking forward to seeing this thing pan out!

it's not gonna be "dragonfly complicated"... that would be a lot more than what i'm going for here....

but what makes C++ good for handling this kind of thing, is that i can write up a class that generically represents the dependancy of a system from others by using a collection of pointers to the status of those other systems , so if it works once, it works always :yes: - that's the beauty of well-coded object orientation

plus, with multiple inheritance, C++ reigns supreme above the vast majority of other languages that disallow it in their unprobely ways, and makes things like this a lot more straightforward to conceive and set up :thumbup:

may the Probe be with dr. Stroustrup for creating it! and with dr. Schweiger for ever so kindly allowing us to use it! :lol:

---------- Post added at 05:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:16 PM ----------

I honestly don't see the point in that. If a newbie wants an easy ride, he can fly an easier vessel.

It's better to make these things too hard than too easy. Too hard and it challenges you to learn. Too easy and it gets quickly boring. Orbiter I think is an excellent example of that. It's the way of the Probe.

it is! the Probe smiles upon all things that are of complexity akin to rocket science and those who venture into learning those things :lol:

Also you can always use Lua for creating flight school scenarios. :thumbup:

have considered! - but i'll leave that for later, after we have actual systems to teach

 

[Urwumpe]

have considered! - but i'll leave that for later, after we have actual systems to teach

Its ok, just already keep a Lua interface in your vessel from the beginning on, it doesn't hurt to have the core interfaces defined and add Lua functions for testing to the Lua vessel interface.

Its simply too useful to be ignored or delayed for later.

PS: Instead of crude pointers for subsystem relations, consider using handle classes (or proxy classes for Gang of Four fans). C++ is making it pretty easy to implement them and they really help preventing the worst pointer management errors.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proxy_pattern"]Proxy pattern - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

 

[Grover]

but i'll leave that for later, after we have actual systems to teach

thats best to do i like the control over the radiator coolant flow, a nice touch

hell whilst we're at it, why not try to implicate a full ILS system to lock you on the localiser and/or glideslope? i mentioned in my only real tutorial that the ILS system on Orbiter at the moment is a little lacking, though i doubt it will ever be the top of Martin's to-do-list

 

[Moach]

(...)
PS: Instead of crude pointers for subsystem relations, consider using handle classes (or proxy classes for Gang of Four fans). C++ is making it pretty easy to implement them and they really help preventing the worst pointer management errors.

Proxy pattern - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

i had thought of that... but then, there's no possible way that a system would not be available while another is and has a need for it....

all systems are members of the main VESSEL3 class, and if that's removed, all systems are removed at once with it.... they're all created together as well... no it's not like something could be ever found looking for something else that's not really there :lol:

no need to overcode things, i always say... if i find trouble with using simple pointers i'll upgrade to a more elaborate solution... otherwise, if it works, then it works :thumbup:


just for reference (i don't think we have one in this page yet):
http://www.moachcraft.xpg.com.br/G422-pit/g422-pit-detail.swf

 

[theflyingfish]

I just noticed the cup holders in the bottom left and right... nice touch!

Of course, when you reach zero-gravity in orbit, all the liquid will float out of the cups and go all over your face, but that's why fighter pilots wear oxygen masks, right?! :thumbup:

When I saw your VC, I was amazed at it's complexity. If you make the whole cockpit functional, it could easily be one of the most immersive ships in Orbiter. :hail: G42-200!

I also noticed an "external tank" panel in the VC, complete with a caution-taped lever (My favorite type of lever!) with the word "JETTISON" on it. Are you planning Velcro-Rocket style drop tanks for the G42-2?

 

[Grover]

If not, you could always just lop them on yourself, but i think that almost all you see in the pit will be functional for the final release

 

[Moach]

I just noticed the cup holders in the bottom left and right... nice touch!

Of course, when you reach zero-gravity in orbit, all the liquid will float out of the cups and go all over your face, but that's why fighter pilots wear oxygen masks, right?! :thumbup:

When I saw your VC, I was amazed at it's complexity. If you make the whole cockpit functional, it could easily be one of the most immersive ships in Orbiter. :hail: G42-200!

I also noticed an "external tank" panel in the VC, complete with a caution-taped lever (My favorite type of lever!) with the word "JETTISON" on it. Are you planning Velcro-Rocket style drop tanks for the G42-2?

i'd advise crew members to use the cup holders only for sports-type bottles... you know, those with the pop-up nipple-thingy on top :lol: zero-g and liquids don't really agree with delicate electronics laying around :uuh:


not sure yet on exactly how the darts and droptanks will be implemented... i would mostly prefer whatever option creates the least dependency on third-party addons (seeing how over half the scenarions in my launchpad seem to be missing some thing or another)

i feel that i'm pretty close to a cockpit layout i can call "functional", at which point, it's on to modeling it :thumbup:
a few things i wanna get straightneded out still... but almost there, mostly

 

[Wishbone]

Actually, I thought that Cup holders are intended for holding the Inter-Americas Cup for the Smoothest Orbital Ride...

 

[Moach]

Actually, I thought that Cup holders are intended for holding the Inter-Americas Cup for the Smoothest Orbital Ride...

that too! if everything works out just right :thumbup:


new stuff!

http://www.moachcraft.xpg.com.br/G422-pit/g422-pit-detail.swf

we now got the emergency panel almost set... plus a few other tweaks :yes:

now, what sort of features would you say one'd expect to find on the smoke-detector panel?


edit:

i should probably explain what SISMFD means... it stands for Self-Inspection-System-MFD, a computer-driven in-depth flight engineering suite

at first glance (and as far as it's probably worth simulating) it displays a detailed systems status report... pretty much everything too specific to display in the non-interactive EICAS pages but still important enough to bother the crew with :lol:

 

[jangofett287]

Top/Overhead panel looking great!
I notice under environment: "crew masks". Will these be aeroplane style emergency ones, or something a bit more complicated?

 

[Moach]

Top/Overhead panel looking great!
I notice under environment: "crew masks". Will these be aeroplane style emergency ones, or something a bit more complicated?

those would be a little more elaborate (less disposable-looking) than those in airliners... but the concept is similar... although airliner masks don't have to deal with as critical toxic cabin air situations, so these should be somewhat more space-worthy :thumbup:

it's not like you're gonna get to use them in Orbiter... which would require rather specific pc hardware to properly simulate :lol: - but it's nice to know a "real" G42 crew would have that possibility...

perhaps as a visual gimmick, maybe... dunno, not sure how far those emergencies are gonna go


more stuff!

http://www.moachcraft.xpg.com.br/G422-pit/g422-pit-detail.swf

 

[jangofett287]

fire suppression systems! Are fires going to cause the appropriate smoke while in the atmosphere? of course, this could be disabled in the config for lower end systems (I'm thinking of those on the low end, even though I'm at the high end!)

 

[Moach]

goodie goodie! i think i'm done!

USB ports aside, (for the EFB... i'll add them later) i believe i've sorted out all the systems i had plans for - as well as some that i made up as i went along :lol:


now, it's on to deciding implementation priorities... suffice to say, for now, engines are high up on the list, FMC and emergencies are last


i guess tomorrow i can already start cooking up that map so i can model the pit up from it... it should be easier now, that i know what i need to put and where :hmm:


cheers! http://www.moachcraft.xpg.com.br/G422-pit/g422-pit-detail.swf

 

[jangofett287]

EPIC!!!:thumbup:

Are the handles either side of the engineers seat for him to hold on to during reentry if he gets stuck with a slightly mad pilot?:lol:

And wind shield wipers? At Mach 15+? And i thought that air intake was dodgy :rofl:
Though I suppose they will be covered by the visor. It had better be well sealed!

 

[Moach]

EPIC!!!:thumbup:

Are the handles either side of the engineers seat for him to hold on to during reentry if he gets stuck with a slightly mad pilot?:lol:

And wind shield wipers? At Mach 15+? And i thought that air intake was dodgy :rofl:
Though I suppose they will be covered by the visor. It had better be well sealed!

yeah, those are what i call "white-knucle-handles" :lol: for whenever you're flying lefty with someone braver than you :uhh:


the windshield wipers are for taxiing, takeoff and landing in less-than-poetic weather conditions... (a feat that in itself is more than the now-retired STS can claim) but still, doesn't imply that you should fly the G42 into a Cb...

when the visors are up, they seal tightly enough to fully protect the unshielded internals... including said wipers

 

[jangofett287]

when the visors are up, they seal tightly enough to fully protect the unshielded internals... including said wipers

Good to hear it. You'd better make sure the 'white knuckle handles' are plenty strong as well, I've never managed to compete an unpowered reentry without crashing, burning, or both.

 

[Grover]

is i might make a suggestion:

the landing lights should really be grouped: who wants to have only the left side on really

and if you look in the VC of an XR2, you'll notice that they have cupholders as well: its just a case of a special "cup"

 

[Moach]

(...)
the landing lights should really be grouped: who wants to have only the left side on really (...)"

they're not right and left - the G42 has two sets of landing lights for different lighting conditions, one on the main gears and another on swing-down doors below the wings...
perhaps i oughta re-label one as "GER" for "gears"... although they serve the same purpose :hmm:


nice catch


and cup-holders are a very important feature! who in their right minds would risk a dehidrated pilot? :lol:

---------- Post added 04-06-11 at 12:25 PM ---------- Previous post was 04-05-11 at 04:52 PM ----------

ok, VC mesh is in progress!

as you can see, i'm using the map i made as a guide to shape the VC - and what a treat it's being! :tiphat: - so much easier to model when you know up front how it's gonna look like


btw - no i do not plan on using "mr. Biped" on the right as the actual pilot - he's just a human-figure reference for me to build the pit around... i'll model a better pilot further on, and just might put my face (or the Dr.'s face) on him :lol:


i plan to keep the mesh "lightweight" - for that, whatever would be hidden from sight (behind and below the seats, the crews feet, and other stuff that would be heavily shaded or concealed will either be painted all black or not modelled at all :hmm:

i had used this approach for the '100 pit, and it worked just right - a well done efficient mesh will look just as good and run a lot better than a brute-force polygon soup :thumbup:

 

[Grover]

i hope that the 2800 vertices includes the rest of the model, having 2800 on just one VC panel is not a good start

and that human model isnt too bad, you cna salvage something from that, like the head perhaps, that looks quite nice

 

[Moach]

i hope that the 2800 vertices includes the rest of the model, having 2800 on just one VC panel is not a good start

and that human model isnt too bad, you cna salvage something from that, like the head perhaps, that looks quite nice

ah yes, thats for everything in the scene :lol: - or else that would have to be one good-looking panel to justify it :rofl: