Google 3D Warehouse copyright issues

[Kendo]

Is there any reason why I can,t use sketcup models from Google 3D warehouse. I have a couple of superb models, which i have spent a lot of time getting into Orbiter, but I can,t find a way to contact the authors. As far as I see, if its a free download, then we can use them.

 

[Donamy]

Wrong !!

 

[Hielor]

To elaborate: unless the artist has explicitly stated that his work is free to use, you cannot use it without permission.

 

[dgatsoulis]

Is there any reason why I can,t use sketcup models from Google 3D warehouse. I have a couple of superb models, which i have spent a lot of time getting into Orbiter, but I can,t find a way to contact the authors. As far as I see, if its a free download, then we can use them.

You can use them in any way you like. But only for personal use. Uploading and sharing the original or a modified version of the original, violates the term "personal use".

 

[garyw]

What they said - just because it's online doesn't mean it's free to use as you see fit. There is such a thing as [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright"]automatic copyright[/ame] and what that means is anything you put online or out in the public domain is automatically copyrighted to you unless you have agreed to specific terms and conditions before hand or unless you specifically waive that right - this is why GPL exists.

 

[Urwumpe]

Exactly. You have to limit your rights on something, not the other way around. There are some extremes in the copyright law, that are pretty annoying, but this kind of precedence is pretty useful.

 

[dgatsoulis]

I just went through the Terms of Service of Google 3d Warehouse.

In section 11 "Content license from you" , it states the following:

11.1 (a) You retain copyright and any other rights you already hold in Content which you submit, post or display on or through, the Services.

and further down:

11.1(c) By publicly posting or displaying the content you give other end users of the Services a perpetual, sublicensable, irrevocable, worldwide, royalty-free, and non-exclusive license to reproduce, adapt, modify, translate, publish, publicly perform, publicly display and distribute (subject to the restrictions set forth in Sections 11.4 and 20.3 of these Terms) any Content or derivative works thereof which you publicly post or display on or through the Services.

the restrictions mentioned are:

11.4 Notwithstanding anything to the contrary, without Google’s prior authorization, you may not: (i) aggregate Content obtained from Google Services for redistribution, or (ii) use or distribute Content obtained from Google Services in a mapping or geographic application or service. [...]

20.3 Models created in Building Maker include proprietary imagery. You may not disassociate or separate the imagery from any Building Maker model and use or make it available outside of Google Services.

Unless i misunderstood the terms, it turns out that the end user can modify and distribute the derivatives of any model on Google 3d. But if they make any money out of it, they owe the original author royalties.

Edit: i'm not so sure about the royalties, since it is stated that the end user has a royalty-free license.

 

[garyw]

I hate licensing agreements. They are a pain to muddle through.

If I'm reading it correctly 11.4 and 20.3 have no relevance in this question because the model won't be used for mapping or geographic applications.

11.1(c) However fully applies. It suggests that there are no problems with posting a modified model on OH because the distributing restrictions don't limit the distribution to Google services alone.

However, the original author retains full copyright and would need to be consulted.

 

[ky]

Thats why I make my own sketchup models.

 

[Hielor]

That's why I don't use Sketchup.

 

[Kendo]

Thanks guys. In that case, as there is no way to contact the Authors, I will keep these for my own pleasure.

 

[Kurt M. Weber]

I hate licensing agreements. They are a pain to muddle through.

If I'm reading it correctly 11.4 and 20.3 have no relevance in this question because the model won't be used for mapping or geographic applications.

11.1(c) However fully applies. It suggests that there are no problems with posting a modified model on OH because the distributing restrictions don't limit the distribution to Google services alone.

However, the original author retains full copyright and would need to be consulted.

Yes, the original author retains copyright. However, the terms of service that have been mentioned here mean that by the very act of uploading the model we all have permission to do whatever is in 11.1(c); contacting the author for express permission isn't necessary, as permission is given simply by uploading the model.

It is the very fact that the author retains copyright that makes 11.1(c) meaningful in the first place. Copyright means that the holder gets to decide on the terms of distribution; 3D Warehouse's terms of service mean that if the copyright holder uploads the model there, the holder is agreeing to grant everyone the terms in 11.1(c), regardless of whether we individually contact hir asking for permission.

 

[Linguofreak]

What they said - just because it's online doesn't mean it's free to use as you see fit. There is such a thing as automatic copyright and what that means is anything you put online or out in the public domain is automatically copyrighted to you unless you have agreed to specific terms and conditions before hand or unless you specifically waive that right - this is why GPL exists.

The above is true, minus the bolded bit.

Placing a work in the public domain does not mean putting it somewhere where the public can easily get a copy. It means waiving all copyright over the work. Works placed in the public domain are by definition not copyrighted to you.

 

[gattispilot]

So if you modify it. Is ok to put on OH?
I have seen some that say original model by So and So from Sketchup.

 

[garyw]

The above is true, minus the bolded bit.

Placing a work in the public domain does not mean putting it somewhere where the public can easily get a copy. It means waiving all copyright over the work. Works placed in the public domain are by definition not copyrighted to you.

Not in the UK. Any work created AUTOMATICALLY grants the creator copyright unless the creator waives those rights. It can be argued that putting something in the public domain waives those rights but it doesn't until the author explicitly says so.

So if you modify it. Is ok to put on OH?
I have seen some that say original model by So and So from Sketchup.

No.

I can take a copy of Windows 2012 R2 and modify it by adding a script. That doesn't mean that I own the copyright for the original work.

 

[gattispilot]

I wonder why it seems so many put on 3d warehouse and not seem to be contactable.

 

[Quick_Nick]

3D Warehouse Terms:

You grant to end users a perpetual, sublicensable, irrevocable, worldwide, royalty-free, and non-exclusive license (under all intellectual property rights) to reproduce, adapt, modify, publish, publicly perform and display, distribute, create derivative works of, make, sell, offer to sell, import, and use the Models you submit, post or display on or through the Warehouse and derivative works thereof, subject to such end user’s compliance with the terms of this Agreement including, but not limited to, the Authorized Uses and License Restrictions contained in Section 7 (License Terms Applicable to Models).
These license rights continue even if you stop using the Site or Warehouse. You can stop further Distribution of your Models at any time by removing your Models from the Warehouse as set forth above, however please note that this will not affect the license rights granted above.

 

[statickid]

Retaining copyright means you (the author) can CONTINUE to use your model as if you own it.

If you sell art without retaining the rights, such as is usually the case with a logo, then the original artist no longer owns the ability to use it as they wish.

11.1 says that others who download it can pretty much do what they like and create sublicenses with the derivatives. So you can create orbiter add-ons with lImited distribution if you want. However because your rights to the model are non-exclusive you couldn't complain if someone else does the same thing.

The other part says you can't make your own 3D warehouse with stuff you got from 3D warehouse.

Because the license is irrevocable, the original author can't take their object OFF of 3D warehouse and expect to gain exclusive rights back, of the ability to sue google warehouse users.

My interpretation is that, yes, you can make orbiter add-ons with your downloaded model, you can even sublicense restricted use of YOUR PARTICULAR add-on. However, you cant stop anyone from creating a similar or identical looking add-on with the same model.

 

[Urwumpe]

Not in the UK. Any work created AUTOMATICALLY grants the creator copyright unless the creator waives those rights. It can be argued that putting something in the public domain waives those rights but it doesn't until the author explicitly says so.

Same in Germany - I think all western countries have the same Standards there.

Only the open-source licenses had some trouble here, because they had been build around US laws and needed some changes to be conform to German laws.

 

[Linguofreak]

It can be argued that putting something in the public domain waives those rights but it doesn't until the author explicitly says so.

Putting something in the [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_domain"]public domain[/ame] waives those rights tautologically. Once again, placing a work in the public domain does *not* just mean making it available for public access. The public domain is the set of works to which copyright does not apply. So placing something in the public domain means, by defiinition, waiving copyright to that work. Where copyright is automatic (Berne Convention signatories), it means marking the work with an explicit statement that you are waiving copyright.