Heat Conservation on any Titan habitats

[Admiral_Ritt]

What type of design would be best for a base on Titan, with the goal of
reducing heat loss to a minimum.

From the information i've read on-line it appears that the following
facts get in the way using Antarctic solutions to controll temperature.

1) Titan's surface atmospheric pressure is 150% that of Earth at sea level.
The cold will be trying to get in, by any cracks or pores.

2) Because the air is dense at such cold temperatures it is capable of
extracting 4 times at much heat for a given surface area, compared
to the earth.

3) Exterior of base at point of contact with surface must be close to
-150C to -170 C or ground underneath may become unstable to due
to evaporation of organic volatiles on the surface footprint of the base.

4) other Moons of Saturn interact with and stretches the Titan surface,
there will be seismic disturbances

5) it's a long trip, try to minimize hardware needed.

If we are talking about a base of 100, with an interior living space of
16,000 cu. M. What design would be most efficient. Assume we do
have interior power plant, but we want to minimize the power
diverted to heating. And the power plant cooling system only provides
20% of heating required.

 

[BruceJohnJennerLawso]

What type of design would be best for a base on Titan, with the goal of
reducing heat loss to a minimum.

From the information i've read on-line it appears that the following
facts get in the way using Antarctic solutions to controll temperature.

1) Titan's surface atmospheric pressure is 150% that of Earth at sea level.
The cold will be trying to get in, by any cracks or pores.

2) Because the air is dense at such cold temperatures it is capable of
extracting 4 times at much heat for a given surface area, compared
to the earth.

3) Exterior of base at point of contact with surface must be close to
-150C to -170 C or ground underneath may become unstable to due
to evaporation of organic volatiles on the surface footprint of the base.

4) other Moons of Saturn interact with and stretches the Titan surface,
there will be seismic disturbances

5) it's a long trip, try to minimize hardware needed.

If we are talking about a base of 100, with an interior living space of
16,000 cu. M. What design would be most efficient. Assume we do
have interior power plant, but we want to minimize the power
diverted to heating. And the power plant cooling system only provides
20% of heating required.

Hmmm, maybe dont go to Titan? :lol:

For problems 3 & 4, having the habitat on wide base landing legs should help. Perhaps a vacuum layer like the ones used in thermoses?

If the spacecraft were designed with a pressurised bulkhead surrounding the living quarters, it could be vented & sealed en-route, presto a vacuum chamber to keep most heat in. If it works for soup, itll work for humans...

 

[Ark]

Yeah, a vacuum chamber around the hab (with airlocks pumped down to a vacuum as well) is pretty much essential when you're facing an endless heat sink at 1.5 bar. In my opinion, the only real safeguard is a powerplant that produces a ton of waste heat, because you're going to have significant heat loss one way or another. If, for some reason, that vacuum layer is compromised and fills with outside atmosphere at outside temperature, you're gonna freeze to death before anyone can suit up and fix it.

 

[BruceJohnJennerLawso]

Yeah, a vacuum chamber around the hab (with airlocks pumped down to a vacuum as well) is pretty much essential when you're facing an endless heat sink at 1.5 bar. In my opinion, the only real safeguard is a powerplant that produces a ton of waste heat, because you're going to have significant heat loss one way or another. If, for some reason, that vacuum layer is compromised and fills with outside atmosphere at outside temperature, you're gonna freeze to death before anyone can suit up and fix it.

I understand nuclear reactors are quite good at that. I wonder if there would be any way to refine new fuel rods on Titan too? :hmm:

 

[Tommy]

The solution to the first problem is simple. Pressurize the hab to the ambient pressure. 150% of "standard" is easily tolerated by humans, far less pressure than simply swimming a couple feet under water. This also allows for a lighter construction since you won't have to deal with the loads caused by pressure differential. Before humans are sent, a robotic bulldozer should be sent to build a windbreak out of regolith to alleviate the loads caused by Titan's high wind speeds. This will also somewhat reduce the heat loss via convection to the atmosphere.

The hab should sit on legs with large "feet", which allow the hab to simply "surf" on the surface during groundshifts. "Skirts" should be installed, much like are used on mobile homes, to reduce the airflow under the hab and alleviate some heat loss. This will result in far less heat loss than a hab that sits on the ground - "groundsoak" would cause much more loss than trapped "air".

Other than that, heat reflective surfaces on the interior and layered insulation will reduce the heat loss by more than you would think. This will be a "sealed envelope" so heat transfer is minimal. The body heat of the inhabitants would provide most of the heat needed - it's entirely possible that you may have excessive heat and actually need external radiators at times to shed the excess.

Keep in mind that, in arctic habitats, the vast majority of heat loss comes from atmospheric exchange (since you need to exchange some atmosphere to maintain a breathable environment since you aren't providing CO2 scrubbers and bottled O2) - arctic habs aren't fully sealed envelopes with full-fledged airlocks. Most of the rest of the heat loss in arctic habs comes from "ground soak".

 

[BruceJohnJennerLawso]

The solution to the first problem is simple. Pressurize the hab to the ambient pressure. 150% of "standard" is easily tolerated by humans, far less pressure than simply swimming a couple feet under water. This also allows for a lighter construction since you won't have to deal with the loads caused by pressure differential. Before humans are sent, a robotic bulldozer should be sent to build a windbreak out of regolith to alleviate the loads caused by Titan's high wind speeds. This will also somewhat reduce the heat loss via convection to the atmosphere.

Are you sure about the 1.5 bar internal atmosphere? It might work in theory, but that sounds awfully uncomfortable to live in.

 

[Tommy]

Yes, there are dozens of underwater habitats that maintain pressures far higher - some over 10 bar, in some of the more extreme habs the air is a mix of O2 and Helium to avoid "nitrogen narcosis", but that isn't a problem at a mere 150% of standard.

The inhabitants could be exposed to gradually increasing pressure during the voyage, giving the body time to adjust. Although, at a mere 1.5 bar there is no real risk of narcosis or the bends - no slow compression or decompression is required. To put it simply, the extra pressure at 1.5 bar isn't really even noticeable.

 

[BruceJohnJennerLawso]

Yes, there are dozens of underwater habitats that maintain pressures far higher - some over 10 bar, in some of the more extreme habs the air is a mix of O2 and Helium to avoid "nitrogen narcosis", but that isn't a problem at a mere 150% of standard.

The inhabitants could be exposed to gradually increasing pressure during the voyage, giving the body time to adjust. Although, at a mere 1.5 bar there is no real risk of narcosis or the bends - no slow compression or decompression is required. To put it simply, the extra pressure at 1.5 bar isn't really even noticeable.

Learn something new everyday... :thumbup:

 

[Tommy]

General rule for divers is 1 atmosphere of additional pressure for every 10 meters of depth! So Titan would be about equivalent to only 5 meters underwater!

 

[Admiral_Ritt]

Some good answers, as a bonus its a heck of alot easier to land Large
cargo modules on Titan compared to the Luna (at least if you can get there)

What about using Titan's ice itself as a structural exoskeleton/insulator
If the organic Soup does not penetrate more than a few meters in the
icy surface, (we don't want to be drilling into ice mixed with volatile organics)
Could you drill into ice mountains and carve out living space.
Use modified Bigelow Inflatables as the actual habitable space.
and put a Airlock/heat regulator at the entrance to keep out the -150C weather.

As long as you kept the Temperature inside the cave at -10C the space would be stable.

I would say for the Bigelow inflatables you would have modified versions that
are elongated, with vacuum layer like some your ideas above)

 

[Keatah]

Whatever the method - I can see multiple layers of air spaces, vacuums, or sheets of materials. For efficiency and reliability.

 

[hedzup456]

General rule for divers is 1 atmosphere of additional pressure for every 10 meters of depth! So Titan would be about equivalent to only 5 meters underwater!

Pah, that's terrible! Titan, MAN UP!
~Hedz

 

[Ghostrider]

Hmmm, maybe dont go to Titan? :lol:

Hey! We didn't choose to go to Titan because it's easy, but because it's cool and we'll be bragging about it forever afterwards!:lol:

 

[Admiral_Ritt]

The more I read about the damaging effects of cosmic rays, the more
a Mars colony seems limited to sub-surface colonization, (like Morlocks :lol
and I have yet to read reports of large amounts of organics. Also those
dust storms will play havoc with any solar farms used for power. Yes it's
nice that Mars has that thin atmophere for Aerobraking, but any exposure
to it without protection is as dangerous as deep space.


Enter Titan possibly as a more promising colony site:

The two worst problems for colonizing Titan contain the same solution.

The worst problem is power generation. Solar power is minimal out there.
Fast Breeder Reactors using Thorium seem like the ticket. And any reactors
would do double duty to combat the second problem, power for an efficient
engine to get the base to the Saturn system a pretty long haul ride.

The thing is if you build a habitat in earth orbit (concentric rings) and
your strutural design is carefully considered. It should possible to use this
habitat for the crossing voyage, survey of titan colony site, as well as
PHYSICALLY land the structure on the surface and use it as your colony base.

Assuming this colony base is designed for a single entry and has a limited
ability for atmospheric flight. It would in principle make it much less complex
than something that is designed lift off into space again.

 

[TMac3000]

Venus is hot enough to melt lead. Titan is cold enough to liquify natural gas. The colonization problems are equally difficult. IMO, the expense of a manned mission would far outwiegh any scientific benefit. I say stick with robots for Titan. For a manned Saturn mission, I'd say either Enceladus or Iapetus.

 

[Admiral_Ritt]

What would living on a Titan colony be like. It would be work but also
a hell of alot of fun. (all of the following could be tested on the Moon first)
And which is easier, Melting Rock to make a large habitat or melting ICE? Mars requires the first, Titan requires the second.


LETS BREAK THIS DOWN TO

Habitat, Foraging, Recreation.

HABITAT

Consider a habitat Powered by Breeder Thorium Reactors, and made by hollowing out an Icy Hill. A hollow with a 4 mile diameter 1 mile high. You have created a surface consisting of active soil down to 10 feet, then sand and clay down to 15 feet further and crushed rock base about 5 feet at the bottom which is in direct contact with the Titan Ice.

The challenge is to keep the temps near surface at comfy 20c while up high near the ceiling temperatures should never be above -20C so at to keep your roof from melting. ( for Farming, the temperature must be regulated
to prevent damage to roots of trees and other deeper root vegetation)

Two ways to do this, depending of the cost in energy and materials.

1) You run cold N2/O2 air through warmers at the ground level.
Knowing that it will rise and cool off, You would have to be careful
at the edges where the rising warmer air is very close to the Ice ceiling.

2) You could create a couple of overlaying envelopes up high to maintain
the temperature differential. With lower G's of Titan, just modest warmth
would keep the envelopes fluffed up.

3) You would need a back up, if for some reason the Envelopes were severly
compromised, Probably a ceiling valves to let the titan air in. THAT would cool a warming incident.


FORAGING:

Well, it helps That 95% of the materials for Life Support are there.
But it will be important to find sources of minerals. If they are within
a few hundred miles Robotic Harvesters can be sent via Air ship.

I suspect the heavier Ores may not be within easy reach of the surface.
They may need to be harvested from other moons of saturn two moons are short hop away, Delta V wise. Matter of fact You could use a more shielded Apollo Era Lunar Lander to get you there and back.

Here is the advantage of a thick amosphere on a low G world, you can put a foldable Propeller on top of any craft to lift you to considerable height before igniting your engines, saving quite a bit a fuel, and not having to create a solid rock/iron landing platform for take off and landing. (LEM fuel burn would
create a furious and explosive event if it were used right on the surface of Titan).

Recreation: Never mind personal wings to let you fly. that's just showing off.

How About:

1) Public transportation based on small Rigid airships. Guided by cables it
would be like your Airport transporter

2) Walking on water, special water "shoes" would allow you to cross a
river. (assuming there are a few in at he colony site)

3) Invent a sport for a low G enviroment.

4) sky diving. from the top of the dome (in thermal suit) What is the
terminal velocity at .15 G, in a 1000mb enviroment. Actually about
40 K/sec. But you would take a longer time to get to that terminal velocity

So you could float for 4,000 feet and pull the chord. I think this would
last about 3.75 minutes.

5) take a sail, on one of the Titan Methane/Ethane Lakes or How about
Submarine ride on the deeper ones at 75 feet deep.

------------------------------------------------------------
On Mars I hear that it's fun to

Throw some pee out of your pee bag and watch it freze out.

Watch Dust devils clog up your ride.

Pretend all the girls redheads.

Compare your Hampsters cushy home compared to your Cave.