Question How come I almost can't find any female Orbinauts?

[Cosmic Penguin]

Well......

Which begs one question that I have been thinking of lately: how come I very nearly cannot find a single female Orbinaut on O-F, even less than the ratio of female engineers (never mind scientists) in the aerospace industry or the ratio of female physics students in my university (something like 1:20 I heard)? This is very strange, because while flight simulators aren't exactly what girls might do, I would think that flying spaceflight simulators would be funnier than, say, doing some incredibly complex math, and I certainly would not have expected something like, um, ~0 female active members on O-F over the past few months (which I take as a good representation of the population playing Orbiter on a regular basis).

Should I worry about what the is thinking about? :huh: Or is that just my Freudian sub-consciousness on finding a GF? :rofl: Should we start a campaign on promoting Orbiter to females (e.g. your wife/GF/daughter/classmates/friends/mum etc.)?

Thoughts?

 

[Urwumpe]

We have no girls? :blink:

 

[Artlav]

Because instead of this:

These days it's mostly this:

And social pressure is a mighty force...

 

[N_Molson]

I'd say that girls are really not in vehicles simulators in general. Now don't ask me why, that's mostly cultural I'd say. From there arise social pressure, as said Artlav. Communication (including tongues), art, litterature, psychology, humanities in general ("soft sciences") but also caring (animals, ill people, children) are usually associated with girls.

Notice that you have quite a lot of girls in horses simulators and ranch management softwares, there's a gaming industry for that. Some are really of nice quality (my both sisters are fond of that).

Social simulators, too (and there, you can't avoid the monumental EA's The Sims series, I'm still admirative on how they managed to addict the female public and make a huge lot of money with that).

We could also wonder why we like airplanes simulators, wargames and stuff like that. Same thing, mathematics, physics, chemistry, engineering ("hard sciences"), war, high-tech, and vehicles are usually associated to boys. :2cents:

 

[MattBaker]

We have no girls? :blink:

I thought with your long hair...if you'd shave maybe?

No, seriously: I think it's the same like in a lot of other parts of the internet. There are few females interested into certain kind of stuff (including rocketry) and if you are you're silent and don't get too much involved with the community.

And I'm not really in favor of all this "Uh, we're all the same so why aren't there more women in science?"-stuff. No we're not the same. Not everyone of us has to become a scientist or even care about that kind of stuff. If girls chose to be interested into fashion, actresses or whichever stereotype you gonna pull it's their choice. If they're interested in physics and spaceflight: Also good.

Or we'll explain that with the "rockets-as-phallic-symbols" kind of stuff, which ultimately leads to weird conclusions with not starting Fregats and exploding N-1s.

 

[Pipcard]

I'd say that girls are really not in vehicles simulators in general. Now don't ask me why, that's mostly cultural I'd say. From there arise social pressure, as said Artlav. Communication (including tongues), art, litterature, psychology, humanities in general ("soft sciences") but also caring (animals, ill people, children) are usually associated with girls.

Notice that you have quite a lot of girls in horses simulators and ranch management softwares, there's a gaming industry for that. Some are really of nice quality (my both sisters are fond of that).

Social simulators, too (and there, you can't avoid the monumental EA's The Sims series, I'm still admirative on how they managed to addict the female public and make a huge lot of money with that).

We could also wonder why we like airplanes simulators, wargames and stuff like that. Same thing, mathematics, physics, chemistry, engineering ("hard sciences"), war, high-tech, and vehicles are usually associated to boys.

Essentially, the gender roles that are ingrained into society.

 

[Urwumpe]

I thought with your long hair...if you'd shave maybe?

What?! My facial hair?! Molon Lobe!

What I actually meant: We have a few women here (Sorry for shocking some of you), they simply keep a pretty low profile. Likely because they don't want the "OMG GURLS!" effect that is pretty common in the internet and results in some people suddenly becoming obsessive or start sending pictures of their private parts to somebody, who had already seen more impressive things in her life.

 

[Cosmic Penguin]

I thought with your long hair...if you'd shave maybe?

No, seriously: I think it's the same like in a lot of other parts of the internet. There are few females interested into certain kind of stuff (including rocketry) and if you are you're silent and don't get too much involved with the community.

And I'm not really in favor of all this "Uh, we're all the same so why aren't there more women in science?"-stuff. No we're not the same. Not everyone of us has to become a scientist or even care about that kind of stuff. If girls chose to be interested into fashion, actresses or whichever stereotype you gonna pull it's their choice. If they're interested in physics and spaceflight: Also good.

Or we'll explain that with the "rockets-as-phallic-symbols" kind of stuff, which ultimately leads to weird conclusions with not starting Fregats and exploding N-1s.

Actually the problems I heard are that teachers are actively discouraging female students on sci-tech careers in many places around the world....

 

[Urwumpe]

Actually the problems I heard are that teachers are actively discouraging female students on sci-tech careers in many places around the world....

Yes. And in many places in the world teachers discourage males to go on sci-tech careers as well.

You can't just pick a girl and tell her "Become a scientist". This will fail. You also can't just forbid a young girl to wear pink and be sure to become a princess when she is older. Many of these pink horrors will later become lawyers and sue you into your grave for cruelty.

What you can do, is simply remove the real obstacles. And these are not just cultural. If a women has to be a better men in some sciences, it is just as stupid. What about having children? Many scientific careers expect you to work 24/7 for your PhD when you are 26, and consider you a failure, if you are getting a PhD for a more exciting research with 35. You can't just say: Men can get pregnant too. Doesn't work. you also can't get a bit pregnant. you can have your career first and then your children... if you ignore that women can rarely have their first child in a healthy way past 40. If you want more women in science, you have to find a way to let them pursue a scientific career without having to become men.

Which includes family planning, because many female students quit their boring and unrewarding studies once a planned or unplanned baby is underway and nature starts to do some modifications to the mind, that results in these ugly, smelly, loud and sticky monsters becoming the most beautiful and fascinating creatures in the world.

 

[Cosmic Penguin]

Yes. And in many places in the world teachers discourage males to go on sci-tech careers as well.

You can't just pick a girl and tell her "Become a scientist". This will fail. You also can't just forbid a young girl to wear pink and be sure to become a princess when she is older. Many of these pink horrors will later become lawyers and sue you into your grave for cruelty.

What you can do, is simply remove the real obstacles. And these are not just cultural. If a women has to be a better men in some sciences, it is just as stupid. What about having children? Many scientific careers expect you to work 24/7 for your PhD when you are 26, and consider you a failure, if you are getting a PhD for a more exciting research with 35. You can't just say: Men can get pregnant too. Doesn't work. you also can't get a bit pregnant. you can have your career first and then your children... if you ignore that women can rarely have their first child in a healthy way past 40. If you want more women in science, you have to find a way to let them pursue a scientific career without having to become men.

Which includes family planning, because many female students quit their boring and unrewarding studies once a planned or unplanned baby is underway and nature starts to do some modifications to the mind, that results in these ugly, smelly, loud and sticky monsters becoming the most beautiful and fascinating creatures in the world.

Which is why I think quite a few of those "feminism" movements today are barking on the wrong tree.

 

[Hielor]

Double whammy of a non-casual video game (low population of female gamers) and the more involved engineering aspects of it.

But seriously, why does it matter? You'll have a better time pretty much anywhere on the internet if you don't care what gender someone is. On gaming sites, I mean--obviously there are some sites where it matters.

Being concerned about the lack of women in a community like this can rapidly turn you into "that guy" who is contributing to the lack of women in a community like this.

 

[Urwumpe]

Which is why I think quite a few of those "feminism" movements today are barking on the wrong tree.

Quite a few... I think most of them. But if you are a hammer, every problem starts to looks like a nail.

We already get quite a few problems in our society already by boys being feminized... not that they should wear pink. But they have mostly female employees at the kindergarten, mostly female teachers. And thus, are mostly rated in their behavior by female standards. Be competitive, maybe have a tiny brawl on the schoolyard? OH MY GOD! THIS KID IS VIOLENT! WE MUST PROTECT THE OTHER KIDS FROM IT!

And thus, the really violent kids are simply mixed with those who are simply male by nature, and when the difference becomes important, it is too late to counteract.

My own understanding is, that males are very physical in their communication, what women can not understand. When women fight, it is a matter of life and death and when it does not result in a clear victory, the hostility goes on for all eternity. When men fight, it must not be a matter of life and death (but simply social communication about things we have no words for), and we can go and drink a beer afterwards and be best friends.

 

[Scav]

when it does not result in a clear victory, the hostility goes on for all eternity.

C'mon.

You and I all know the hostility actually started before creation . . . yes, the hostility will continue until the end of time, but that doesn't negate the probability you will catch hell for something you did well before you were even born. :lol:

How do I know this?

I'm the voice of experience, buster.

 

[Athena]

Your venturing into interstellar space...stahp

 

[Donamy]

I blame Cindy Lauper, who instilled that, " Girls just wanna have fun! ?

 

[Scav]

I blame Cindy Lauper, who instilled that, " Girls just wanna have fun! ?

Thank you. Now that song is stuck in my head.

 

[Cairan]

My wife works as a school guidance counselor, and you have no idea how hard it is to try to get young ladies to go out of the "script", they want safety of employment, nice work schedules, not too much physical work, not too intellectual work either, with the possibility of having children without compromising their career path...

What remains in terms of available work fields after boiling all this down is mostly clerical or teaching jobs in the public sector, because of the pregnancy benefits that come with the public sector job contracts around here, with the usual nursing or daycaring jobs thrown in for those who want more action than sitting at a desk.

Sad. Really sad. Once in a while there's a glitter of hope when one comes in her office and says she wants to be an heavy equipment operator or even a career officer in the armed forces.

 

[FADEC]

And I'm not really in favor of all this "Uh, we're all the same so why aren't there more women in science?"-stuff. No we're not the same. Not everyone of us has to become a scientist or even care about that kind of stuff. If girls chose to be interested into fashion, actresses or whichever stereotype you gonna pull it's their choice. If they're interested in physics and spaceflight: Also good.

Same here.

Males and females are different by nature anyway, which is not sexism but a fact. For example, I think it is obvious why one can rarely see a female road worker, or scaffolder (I never did). And why there are no mixed football teams etc. And there aren't only physical differences, but also differences regarding interests. Females are not as much "fanatic" regarding technology like males usually are. Females like to use a computer. While males usually want to know what's in it, why, and how it works exactly. That's at least my experience.

But since I'm interested in commercial aviation, I would like to say something about it. The number of female pilots is growing for years, but it's still rather low, although the doors of the flight schools are open for everyone these days. They even advertise to get more female applicants. But the number of female applicants is still low. Sadly. Lufthansa for example, one of the biggest airlines, only has 5% female pilots. And that 24 years after Lufthansa got its first female pilot.

But at least we got female pilots these days...

 

[Hlynkacg]

Because math is hard and, as a general rule, girls despise math.

This leads to a disparity of males in STEM related fields.

The fact that you're "playing" Orbiter indicates that you are already a member of the freakish 9% of the human population that does math "for fun". The fact that this particular form of mental derangement is significantly more common among males of the species makes the gender disparity even more apparent.

 

[Urwumpe]

Because math is hard and, as a general rule, girls despise math.

my girlfriend is math teacher. :shifty: