News Major train accident near Magdeburg, Germany

[Urwumpe]

Not much information around yet, except that a regional train collided frontally with a cargo train and that 10 passengers died and 20 sustained major injuries. The regional train was one of the HarzElbeExpress (HEX) railroad company, traveling the route between Magdeburg and Halberstadt, the collision happened near Hordorf, Oschersleben. The accident happened around midnight.

As far as I can read, there had been track maintenance scheduled for this night, not sure if this contributed to the accident.

[ame="http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=de&geocode=&q=Hordorf,+Oschersleben+%28Bode%29,+Deutschland&aq=&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=47.435825,79.013672&ie=UTF8&split=0&hq=&ll=51.997248,11.188374&spn=0.018126,0.038581&t=h&z=15"]The railroad near Hordorf[/ame]

http://www.hex-online.de/

 

[Linguofreak]

Yike! I've not been on that particular line, but I think I've been in the general area...

 

[Urwumpe]

Update: The route was a single track, and was not equipped with PZB, the older German cab signaling and train control system.

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Punktförmige_Zugbeeinflussung

It was scheduled to be equipped with it in the next years by the DB Netze, the company that manages the German rail road tracks.

The PZB acts similar to the British AWS, but has grown much more advanced in the 80s, using microprocessor technology.

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Automatic_Warning_System

 

[SiberianTiger]

What speed trains travel on this route at, usually?

How passengers are located in cabs? Do they have to be fixed with belts in their chairs?

 

[Urwumpe]

What speed trains travel on this route at, usually?

How passengers are located in cabs? Do they have to be fixed with belts in their chairs?

It was a typical DMU, which can travel at up to 120 km/h. According to the time table, it had a planned stop at the Hordorf station at 22:11 on its final run, so it was sure not exploiting the full speed.

No belts in them, the cab is just a small closed cockpit in front of the DMU, while the engineering happens below deck and on the roof.

The train type was very likely of the same class this LINT 41:

http://www.hex-online.de/ueber-uns/fahrzeuge/lint-41/index.html

http://www.hex-online.de/fahrplaene-strecken/fahrplaene/index.html

The freight train was carrying a heavy load of chalk, so if you remember your physics classes about the elastic collision, you can maybe imagine which train got most of the impulse.

There is also a special dedicated homepage of HEX for information about the accident:

http://www.veolia-verkehr.de/medien/zugunglueck/index.html

 

[Linguofreak]

I'm noticing the use of the term "Zugunglück" here. but I'm not sure if "Unglück" here (literally "bad luck") has the same flippant/minimizing connotations in German as it does in English.

 

[SiberianTiger]

The freight train was carrying a heavy load of chalk, so if you remember your physics classes about the elastic collision, you can maybe imagine which train got most of the impulse.

Yep, most passenger cars don't react too well if undergoing a high impulse impact:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCRfa-BzWxk"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCRfa-BzWxk[/ame]

 

[Linguofreak]

Looking at the video title:

Краш-тест? Это нет Русский язык! :lol: (And wouldn't Краш-тэст be closer to the English sound?)

 

[jedidia]

I'm noticing the use of the term "Zugunglück" here. but I'm not sure if "Unglück" here (literally "bad luck") has the same flippant/minimizing connotations in German as it does in English.

Nope, "Unglück" is another term for "Unfall", that is accident. It can be used for "disaster" in a limited sense (for example, natural disasters never get called "Unglück", but "Katastrophe"). It is generally only used for disasters with human cause, so it doesn't mean "bad luck" at all. That would be "Pech".

Train wrecks with passenger trains are ugly. Travel comfort has a higher priority than savety in case of an accident, because the whole savety of the system relies on preventing accidents in the first place, which usually works pretty well. If one happens, however, the bodycount is usually high (although I guess it could be higher, considering that a train can carry a whole swarm of people).

 

[Linguofreak]

Nope, "Unglück" is another term for "Unfall", that is accident. It can be used for "disaster" in a limited sense (for example, natural disasters never get called "Unglück", but "Katastrophe"). It is generally only used for disasters with human cause, so it doesn't mean "bad luck" at all. That would be "Pech".

I figured as much, but thought I'd make sure, as English-speaking organizations have been known to use language that sounds a bit insensitive in press releases on such things. Generally never as bad as "We've had a bit of bad luck, and 10 people were killed", but perhaps "We've had an 'incident'", or the like.

 

[SiberianTiger]

Looking at the video title:

Краш-тест? Это нет Русский язык! :lol: (And wouldn't Краш-тэст be closer to the English sound?)

Russian is a very absorptive language, so a crash test (spelled as краш-тест) is a legitimate Russian word for about a decade already. Maybe it's not in Academy dictionary yet, but will eventually appear there.

I'm scratching my head in attempts to select a pure Russian equivalent for a crash test. "Разбойное испытание"? :rofl:That's hilarious! (somehow it translates back as "robbery trial"...) I don't know what the correct Russian technical term for a crash test is (maybe somebody knows?)

And yes, крэш (crash) would be a more correct spelling than краш (crush), and would not be misleading, but in Russian language practice we kind of "know better" how to spell certain foreign words, to extent that some English or French would not be able to recognize their own name written in Russian, even if they know Cyrillic alphabet. Same thing happens to country names and other borrowed words. And there's nobody to complain about that to...

 

[jedidia]

Incidentally, "crash-test" is also a german word... :lol:

And I'll be darned if I'm ever able to read that cyrillic alphabet fluently, even though it is used in some parts of my current country of residence. Everytime I'm in a part where it's used I fresh up enough to decipher it, but after that I forgett it again...

 

[Fabri91]

And an Italian one too.

@Topic: this mishap sure won't help the reputation of Die Bahn...

 

[Urwumpe]

The latest information around before the press conference at 12:30: The passenger train was traveling southward to Halberstadt at 100 km/h, the freight train was traveling north at 80 km/h. The accident happened north of a 300m long dual track passage track, in which the freight train was, according to schedule, supposed to wait for the passenger train to pass. Both trains had been right on schedule, but the freight train did not stop where it was supposed to stop.

@Topic: this mishap sure won't help the reputation of Die Bahn...

The DB is only remotely involved here. Both trains are operated by completely private companies (The DB is still partially government owned). The passenger train was part of the HarzElbeExpress, a line operated by the Veolia Group, one of the biggest private regional train operators in Germany, while the freight train by the "Verkehrsbetriebe Peine-Salzgitter", this is a subsidiary of the Salzgitter AG, one of the biggest steel producers in Germany. http://www.dict.cc/englisch-deutsch/subsidiary.html

http://www.vps-bahn.de/

The only thing that the DB had responsibility in this case is track maintenance and traffic controls (signals), but there is information yet, if a signal was set wrong, it looks more like the freight train did simply not stop at the signal. Which is possible since the track was not equipped with PZB, which would usually stop a train automatically in that situation. There was also bad visibility that night, with strong fog, making it harder for the train drivers to see the approaching other train.

 

[jedidia]

Both trains had been right on schedule, but the freight train did not stop where it was supposed to stop.

So either it's a signal fault or error on the part of the freight train driver... Did he survive the collision?

 

[Urwumpe]

So either it's a signal fault or error on the part of the freight train driver... Did he survive the collision?

Not sure there, the latest rumors about him are, that he was found in the second engine of his train and that sounds like he was alive. But no solid information there.

That he was in the second engine does also not mean, he was driving the train from there, it is very easily possible, that the freight train driver activated the emergency brake on sighting the incoming passenger train and fled to the second engine.

That the train was running at 80 km/h though, is pretty strange, if there was proper signaling on that track, the freight train should have been slowed down long before the red signal.

Here is a homepage that has photographs of the track:

http://www.staehlernestrassen.de/main/had_hbs.html

(All around Hordorf is about the accident area)

The technology there is pretty old, much older than the ten year old photographs, but I am pretty sure it wasn't updated yet to modern signaling standards. Such small regional tracks rarely get money for updates.

Here is also the entry of the track in the STREDAX database, which contains technical information about all German railroad tracks:

http://stredax.bahn.de/ISRViewer/svg?requestType=getAttrGeneric&lang=de&objectId=2132,25452#top

(Only works properly in conjunction of IE with Adobe SVG viewer, in the STREDAX, you can also find track plans with the signals)

According to this, it was equipped with PZB, but not in all places it seems, Hordorf was not and relied on a single human operator who had been on duty that night.

 

[Urwumpe]

Here is a bitmap version of the track plan of the Hordorf station:



I converted it myself from the STREDAX data via Inkscape, the original is a too standard conform SVG file (with many namespaces).

 

[Linguofreak]

Russian is a very absorptive language, so a crash test (spelled as краш-тест) is a legitimate Russian word for about a decade already. Maybe it's not in Academy dictionary yet, but will eventually appear there.

English has been guilty of enough borrowings itself, but when you're a lover of languages, seeing words from your own language in the middle of another kinda kills the fun.

And yes, крэш (crash) would be a more correct spelling than краш (crush), and would not be misleading, but in Russian language practice we kind of "know better" how to spell certain foreign words, to extent that some English or French would not be able to recognize their own name written in Russian, even if they know Cyrillic alphabet. Same thing happens to country names and other borrowed words. And there's nobody to complain about that to...

Actually, I was talking about the 'е' in тест. The English sound in "crash" is approximately between Russian "а" and "э" (depending upon whether you're talking about the stressed or unstressed pronunciation in Russian), so either can work in theory, and а looks more like letter in English "crash", so краш doesn't strike me as at all a wrong transcription. If one wanted to be horribly pedantic, one could spell it "краэш" or "крэаш".

The issue I have is that I've heard that (stressed) Russian 'е' is supposed to correspond to English 'ye' (with a short e, so that "yes" would be spelled "ес"), or else to simple English short e with palatalization of the preceding consonant, whereas "э" corresponds to the sound of English short e with no palatalization or preceding y. Thus тест would be closer to "tyest" than "test".

In general, English lacks palatalized consonants, and y is considered a very much separate sound from any following vowel (and almost never follows a consonant). Therefore, 9 times out of 10, if you want to transcribe a Russian word in Cyrillic, "э" is a better transcription than "е" for a short e in the middle of a word.

 

[vchamp]

Actually, I was talking about the 'е' in тест. The English sound in "crash" is approximately between Russian "а" and "э" (depending upon whether you're talking about the stressed or unstressed pronunciation in Russian), so either can work in theory, and а looks more like letter in English "crash", so краш doesn't strike me as at all a wrong transcription. If one wanted to be horribly pedantic, one could spell it "краэш" or "крэаш".

The issue I have is that I've heard that (stressed) Russian 'е' is supposed to correspond to English 'ye' (with a short e, so that "yes" would be spelled "ес"), or else to simple English short e with palatalization of the preceding consonant, whereas "э" corresponds to the sound of English short e with no palatalization or preceding y. Thus тест would be closer to "tyest" than "test".

In general, English lacks palatalized consonants, and y is considered a very much separate sound from any following vowel (and almost never follows a consonant). Therefore, 9 times out of 10, if you want to transcribe a Russian word in Cyrillic, "э" is a better transcription than "е" for a short e in the middle of a word.

:blink:
Truly a linguo freak.
Even more remarkable is that everything written is correct.

 

[SiberianTiger]

Actually, I was talking about...

Linguofreak, maybe you have few points there, although I'd argue on some of them. Still, I really can't do nothing about how a crash test is spelled in Russian. It's a language evolution, not a matter of regulatory directives, do you see that?

And finally, I think it's enough of linguistic discussion, otherwise very interesting, in a thread about a train accident that killed several people.