Meshes galore!
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GregBurch
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My grumpy, cranky-old-man criticisms of the "battleships in space" school of design is well known around here. What gets me is something implicit in this comment: "It's science fiction after all." As a life-long reader of science fiction, my skin crawls at a comment like this, because, what it really is is fantasy. Science fiction is supposed to have science in it.
I'm even willing to go toe-to-toe in a battle of criticism about the question of whether "art" is somehow an excuse for throwing scientific rigor out the window. After all, the artistic traditions of our culture lie in a marriage between science and art in figures like da Vinci in the Renaissance.
Of course, I'm not saying that an artist isn't free to do whatever he wants -- of course he is. But I'm also free to offer my critical perspective. My cranky-old-man grumpiness is connected to my broader criticism of the general loss of technical rigor in all of the arts in the name of "freedom of expression." My wife's an artist and she's studied at one of the leading art schools in our city for years. She talks about how there are instructors in painting who can't draw representationally to save their lives -- they have no foundational training at all in the basics of craft.
Anyway, that's my "we have to recapture classical values in our culture or we're doomed" rant for this morning ....
ar81
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I must agree with Greg.
The concept of battleships being the ultimate power on Earth was something that was questioned by Billy Mitchell back in 1924 and it cost him his career, for saying that was a military taboo. He was the first that I know who tested dive bombing on a vessel. He said in 1924 that war on Japan was unavoidable and that Japanese would use aircraft to attack battleships, something that happened in 1941 in Peral Harbor.
Star Wars battles are a similar romanticism, like Lord of the Rings in space, a tale of a princess and a prince in space, onboard space horses with laser spears that fight in a space joust. It added the romantic concept of WWII dogfight/joust and the impressive view of a battleship.
Battleship Yamato was the most powerful vessel ever built. If those cannons reached you, no matter what armored vessel you could have, you would not last for long. It did not have a surface radar, so it was like firing a cannon with your eyes closed. Nowadays missiles replaces cannons and naval tactics are about trying to remain unseen, since armor is no longer useful in naval battles. Yamato was sunk by small planes, Bismark too. HMS Sheffield was rendered unusable by a missile, General Belgrano was sunk by torpedoes, the fastest fish on Earth.
If you ask me about the future usage of battle ships, I would say "aircraft carrier to play golf"
The concept of battleships being the ultimate power on Earth was something that was questioned by Billy Mitchell back in 1924 and it cost him his career, for saying that was a military taboo. He was the first that I know who tested dive bombing on a vessel. He said in 1924 that war on Japan was unavoidable and that Japanese would use aircraft to attack battleships, something that happened in 1941 in Peral Harbor.
Star Wars battles are a similar romanticism, like Lord of the Rings in space, a tale of a princess and a prince in space, onboard space horses with laser spears that fight in a space joust. It added the romantic concept of WWII dogfight/joust and the impressive view of a battleship.
Battleship Yamato was the most powerful vessel ever built. If those cannons reached you, no matter what armored vessel you could have, you would not last for long. It did not have a surface radar, so it was like firing a cannon with your eyes closed. Nowadays missiles replaces cannons and naval tactics are about trying to remain unseen, since armor is no longer useful in naval battles. Yamato was sunk by small planes, Bismark too. HMS Sheffield was rendered unusable by a missile, General Belgrano was sunk by torpedoes, the fastest fish on Earth.
If you ask me about the future usage of battle ships, I would say "aircraft carrier to play golf"
tblaxland
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That hole at the front must be par fore
ar81
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Star Wars style science fiction is as much science as The Hobbit goes to Mars or Werewolf on Jupiter. As you can see Star Wars is more similar to Warcraft than to 2001 space odyssey.
Other scifi shows like Galactica or Wing Commander movie are as much science as "USAF goes to Pluto to fight aliens".
Other scifi shows like Galactica or Wing Commander movie are as much science as "USAF goes to Pluto to fight aliens".
TSPenguin
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I feel with you Greg.
And I completely share your view on that most scifi actualy is fantasy. Unfortunately the term fantasy is associated with magic, dragons and swordsman, whereas scifi is seen as futuristic style with space travel.
That forced me to accept the term science fiction to be used for fictional science too.
And I completely share your view on that most scifi actualy is fantasy. Unfortunately the term fantasy is associated with magic, dragons and swordsman, whereas scifi is seen as futuristic style with space travel.
That forced me to accept the term science fiction to be used for fictional science too.
n0mad23
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Once again, I'm in agreement with Greg. Strange that, since I'm from the "humanities," and started off as a graphic artist. Maybe its the years I spent as a paralegal....
Those of you who've read Footfall will realize that there doesn't have to be a trade-off between art and science. I'd love to be able to pilot the Archangel Michael in Orbiter! The Orion's impressive, but I think Michael would kick its butt in every measurable way. And it's grounded in actual science! There's no "willing suspension of disbelief" required behind this ship, and it certainly doesn't require unobtanium or handwavium to function (just a massive supply of nuclear warheads).
An artistic eye (function should have a connection to form) should be an asset to the scientific principles, not an end to itself. At least in terms of science fiction. Notice how "science" proceeds "fiction."
Since this is the Meshes Galore thread, I'm curious, does anyone know of a repository with low-poly human characters that are public domain? I'm not satisfied with my efforts here, and am ready to "borrow" someone else's work.
Those of you who've read Footfall will realize that there doesn't have to be a trade-off between art and science. I'd love to be able to pilot the Archangel Michael in Orbiter! The Orion's impressive, but I think Michael would kick its butt in every measurable way. And it's grounded in actual science! There's no "willing suspension of disbelief" required behind this ship, and it certainly doesn't require unobtanium or handwavium to function (just a massive supply of nuclear warheads).
An artistic eye (function should have a connection to form) should be an asset to the scientific principles, not an end to itself. At least in terms of science fiction. Notice how "science" proceeds "fiction."
Since this is the Meshes Galore thread, I'm curious, does anyone know of a repository with low-poly human characters that are public domain? I'm not satisfied with my efforts here, and am ready to "borrow" someone else's work.
GregBurch
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Don't beat yourself up too much about it, old boy. It's probably just an accident.
Overmind5000
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HELLO?!!!!!!
Earth to everyone, I just gave a link for models! Just ask the artists for usage, decrease poly count if neccesary, and LAA DEE DAA!! What's with all htis stuff about culture and Sci-fi?:dry:
Earth to everyone, I just gave a link for models! Just ask the artists for usage, decrease poly count if neccesary, and LAA DEE DAA!! What's with all htis stuff about culture and Sci-fi?:dry:
n0mad23
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Right you are, Overmind5000.
You've motivated me to make an account there in my continuing quest for the right pilot team.
Cheers for the link.
You've motivated me to make an account there in my continuing quest for the right pilot team.
Cheers for the link.
ar81
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There is no need of a trade off between science and arts.
Planetes is a great and realistic anime and it is very artistic.
Wings of Honneamise is a great animated scifi movie about first trip to orbit in a fictional world with humans.
And in case you go for the mecha Top Gun fantasy style, Macross Plus looks great.
Macross Zero miniseries brought the mecha Top Gun feeling to a new level. It has a high AoA dogfight in one episode. Just like in real dogfights sometimes they fire two missiles at a target, and it shows cobra maneuver and used realism combined with fantasy in a very smart way. However, in the second half of the very last episode script screwed up deeply a great story.
Now, you can say that "Werewolf at Olympus base" or "space balls" or "solar babies" (the movie) is science fiction, just like you can say that Jurassic park has the same level of Shakespeare arts...
Planetes is a great and realistic anime and it is very artistic.
Wings of Honneamise is a great animated scifi movie about first trip to orbit in a fictional world with humans.
And in case you go for the mecha Top Gun fantasy style, Macross Plus looks great.
Macross Zero miniseries brought the mecha Top Gun feeling to a new level. It has a high AoA dogfight in one episode. Just like in real dogfights sometimes they fire two missiles at a target, and it shows cobra maneuver and used realism combined with fantasy in a very smart way. However, in the second half of the very last episode script screwed up deeply a great story.
Now, you can say that "Werewolf at Olympus base" or "space balls" or "solar babies" (the movie) is science fiction, just like you can say that Jurassic park has the same level of Shakespeare arts...
