Project Multiple Crewmembers Controlling a Ship

[Columbia42]

A while ago an idea to make a starship that could be controlled by multiple people was mentioned and I think it might be possible to create such a system using Orbiter Multiplayer. With this project I hope to eventually make a starship similar to the Enterprise from Star Trek and have many crewmembers controlling it. I have outlined what I think are the key points of this project.

First, a ship must be created with systems that are so complex that it would actually necessitate more than one person controlling it. There would be systems such as life support, propulsion/engineering, perhaps weapons systems, etc. Control panels and interfaces must also be designed so that the above systems can be controlled easily.

Second, Determine what positions might actually be necessary for the operation of such a ship. Obviously we need a navigator as well as people to monitor whatever systems are included in the ship.

Third, the actual interface must be designed that allows multiple people to control one ship. Such an interface would probably be worked out through Orbiter Multiplayer and could also utilize Mission Control for Orbiter. This is definitely the most complex part and will require the most development.

If anyone is interested in such a project, any help with development, etc. would be greatly appreciated. If interest exists, this thread will serve to coordinate efforts as well as provide a place for general brainstorming. I look forward to working on this project with whoever is interested.

The first topic I would like to put out there for discussion is what types of systems should be simulated and what positions would be necessary to control those systems.

 

[dumbo2007]

Interesting idea. I would like to help with it.

I eventually had the Galaxy class in mind and wanted to start a thread like this. But wasn't sure how people would take to the unrealistic sci-fi that is star trek since most people here are into hard-fact based/rocket based propulsion methods that exist today (thats a compliment - no offense meant).

Given how complex such a ship is I began to ramp up and fill in the gaps in Orbiter gradually about a year ago. For some reason I thought collision detection was a must for many of the components and began working towards it. The reason is that if you want people to be able to move around in a ship you must have a physics model.

This enables characters, walls, doors, variable gravity etc etc. I would say I am about 40% of the way there with vessel collisions working. Have to import character controllers but that should be easy now that the biggest integration issues with an external physics engine is solved. It is possible to collide with the DG for example without flying right through it. Eventually it will be possible to add more detail into the DG and put characters inside.

Anyway, collision detection apart, the other subsystems need to be developed and can be developed independently, so let me get back on track . I believe such a ship should be conceived by extrapolating hard numbers that we have today for various things (more on this later). This is to ensure that the eventual result has at least some connections with ground realities today.

First, a ship must be created with systems that are so complex that it would actually necessitate more than one person controlling it. There would be systems such as life support, propulsion/engineering, perhaps weapons systems, etc. Control panels and interfaces must also be designed so that the above systems can be controlled easily.

Second, Determine what positions might actually be necessary for the operation of such a ship. Obviously we need a navigator as well as people to monitor whatever systems are included in the ship.

Good list. If you are looking at a stable warp drive based navigation and propulsion then we could start from Nick's or Artlav's code for warp drive MFD and test with a simple ship. It should be possible to specifiy a target planet, orbit etc and let the drive do the trick. Then we can connect it to a power supply system and calculate from today's estimates how much energy would be needed for the required delta-V. Also I would test such a system in Sol first.

This is because to have a interstellar ship, we need to find a way to represent and accurately calculate interstellar distances first. Thats where Orbiter galaxy comes in. Also the graphics involved in representing the ship while its in-between 2 star systems needs to be though out as Orbiter only provides for a single star system. So until all that is figured out, I guess we should zip around in Sol with our huge ship to validate our technologies and systems

Ok, so moving on, apart from navigation, life support has to be considerably complex to have any effect on simulation objects. So when we start modeling characters, we should go into considerable detail. For example the characters must actually connect with their local environment and consume air and this must result in a drop in the breathable air. Just like UMMUs. We can probably extend DanSteph's idea to more complex UMMU-like vessels


So I say we make a complete list if sub-systems and what we have in terms of development and code currently regarding them. Also what they depend on (in terms of developing them, not their functioning). Then get those interested in them to start working on individual systems. As they mature we can merge them into a larger ship.


make sense ?

 

[Columbia42]

It sounds like you have made great progress in collision detection but I actually was not planning on using collision detection or any sort of character controlling in this addon. In my opinion actually having physical models of crewmembers is not necessary, at least not at this stage in development. At this stage I think it would be sufficient to just have a "bridge crew" who would communicate via Skype or something and interact only through the ship's systems, i.e. they would each have control panels that controlled whatever system they are in charge of. Though it would be great to have all of that collision detection and cool stuff in the future, I think we should try to keep things simple for right now. In my opinion the main tasks at hand should be designing a ship with system simulation and creating an interface to allow multiple people to control that ship.

 

[dumbo2007]

Ah ok

So we need to be able to simulate the systems and communicate the ship state to other PCs.

I guess as far as the panels go, we can design panels easily enough with the current APIs. Are you planning on the LCARs panels shown in the tv series ?

 

[garyw]

This has been discussed quite a few times, I recall one discussion around making NASSP a multi-player experience but I can't find the thread for it.

The most recent is this one and even discusses the LCARS panels. Maybe this is a development idea you two can work together on as you both have similar ideas?

 

[dumbo2007]

After a quick read through of the first few posts, what I get is that the interface is not the big issue. Its building and validating each system that the interface will control. For that the simulation model of a vessel in orbiter has to be considerably extended.

 

[Columbia42]

I posted about this project in the thread you mentioned, hopefully some of them are interested in this. LCARS panels are an option but as was mentioned in the above thread, LCARS was designed by artists to look futuristic, not to be a functional control system. I think it might be better to design new panels with functionality in mind.

 

[4throck]

While the ideia is interesting, having more than one crew member is only logical if you have more than one ship OR more than one thing happening at once.

You can have something like a space telescope on your ship, and that will require a specialist (somewhat like Skylab), besides the actual pilot. Or one pilot for docking and other for orbital maneuvers/navigation.
This type of role playing doesn't require both players to be online at once. If can be done sequentially, just by sharing the scenarios between players.

On the other hand multiple ships (perhaps a mothership with landers and rovers) justify multiple players online at the same time (like Apollo).

I just don't see much to do on an Enterprise type of vessel.
Now, on something like the Space:1999 or 2001 addons with multiple bases and ships, it might be interesting.

(OT but love what I've seen in http://code.google.com/p/surface-physics/)

 

[Hielor]

I'll just leave this here...

http://www.artemis.eochu.com/

 

[Columbia42]

While the ideia is interesting, having more than one crew member is only logical if you have more than one ship OR more than one thing happening at once.

You can have something like a space telescope on your ship, and that will require a specialist (somewhat like Skylab), besides the actual pilot. Or one pilot for docking and other for orbital maneuvers/navigation.
This type of role playing doesn't require both players to be online at once. If can be done sequentially, just by sharing the scenarios between players.

On the other hand multiple ships (perhaps a mothership with landers and rovers) justify multiple players online at the same time (like Apollo).

I just don't see much to do on an Enterprise type of vessel.
Now, on something like the Space:1999 or 2001 addons with multiple bases and ships, it might be interesting.

(OT but love what I've seen in http://code.google.com/p/surface-physics/)

That was why one of the tasks I mentioned in the first post was to design a ship with systems that are complex enough to need more than one person controlling them. There would be life support systems, propulsion/power systems, communications systems, etc.

 

[CrimsonDoc]

How about starting with three systems:
Helm
Navigation
Engineering

Set up panels & controls which are exclusive to each system.

Maybe the commander has an overall view to all systems but no control input to any, except for his verbal command.

For the ship to function, communication between all the officers is paramount.

Captain: Navigator, compute a Hohnmann transfer course for Venus.

Navigator: Aye Aye Captain.... Hohnmann transfer course for Venus set, course bearing 0, 10, 40 degrees (or whatever the coordinate system is). DV requirement 3600 m/s ; TVI burn in 190 seconds ... mark

Captain: Helm, set course for Venus, 0, 10, 40 degrees. Chief, calculate and prepare engines for 3600 m/s DV burn in 170 seconds ... mark!

Helm & Chief: Aye Aye captain!

Helm: Ship in RCS mode and rotating through 30 degrees at 2 degrees/sec ... on course in 15 seconds

Chief: Engines prepped and ready for 300 seconds TVI burn

Surely this would just be a matter of setting up limited panels .... or is this more complicated?

Atmospheric flight could be fun, especially landing!

 

[Columbia42]

I think in order for the operation of the ship to be interesting at all, the focus should not just be (as it is with most of Orbiter currently) on navigation/piloting. With only two or three systems, it does not seem like a captain or a crew for that matter would be necessary. There must be other aspects such as a life support system that is monitored and controlled, a complex engineering system which consists of more than controlling the engines, perhaps a weapons system, and maybe a communications officer who talks to mission control back on Earth. I think with that number of systems/positions the missions would be interesting enough and complicated enough to warrant a captain.

---------- Post added 06-29-12 at 04:50 AM ---------- Previous post was 06-28-12 at 04:19 PM ----------

So what types of systems does everyone think should be included in the ship and what positions need to be filled to maintain and control those systems?