Neil DeGrasse Tyson vs. philosophy

Andy44

Andy44

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NDT's stance on philosophy has apparently hit a nerve with this fellow, who calls NDT a "Philistine":

http://theweek.com/article/index/261042/why-neil-degrasse-tyson-is-a-philistine

From the article:

Yes, he really did say that. Go ahead, listen for yourself, beginning at 20:19 — and behold the spectacle of an otherwise intelligent man and gifted teacher sounding every bit as anti-intellectual as a corporate middle manager or used-car salesman. He proudly proclaims his irritation with "asking deep questions" that lead to a "pointless delay in your progress" in tackling "this whole big world of unknowns out there." When a scientist encounters someone inclined to think philosophically, his response should be to say, "I'm moving on, I'm leaving you behind, and you can't even cross the street because you're distracted by deep questions you've asked of yourself. I don't have time for that."
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The butthurt is strong with this one.
It wasn't worth my time to read it either, but at least I used AdBlock.
I may start listening to this podcast regularly though... (already a StarTalk listener)
 
Didn't listen but knowing NdGT, he probably means something along the lines of un-testable/unanswerable questions are a waste of time.

Al
 
I can understand this attitude, when I think about the people who do philosophy today. But I can't understand this attitude, when it is about philosophy itself. Philosophy is a science like many. Not a natural science, sure. But following scientific rules, much like mathematics with words.

To quote Wittgenstein there:

Philosophy is a battle against the bewitchment of our intelligence by means of our language.

I think this says more about philosophy than about language or intelligence. :lol:

More interesting philosophy for NdGT:

Don't for heaven's sake, be afraid of talking nonsense! But you must pay attention to your nonsense.
 
He should be ashamed of himself.
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Ouch!


Urwumpe said:
I can understand this attitude, when I think about the people who do philosophy today. But I can't understand this attitude, when it is about philosophy itself. Philosophy is a science like many. Not a natural science, sure. But following scientific rules, much like mathematics with words.
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I know you're German and all, but I think even you overdosed on beer when you wrote that. :lol:
 
Hard science and philosophy have deep ancestral roots. All modern science is rooted in ancient philosophers trying to understand how and why the universe is the way it is.

That's why NDT is a PhD, "Doctor of Philosophy".

I understand that a lot of philosophers today may be nothing more than self-licking ice cream cones, but to me philosophy is basically curiosity about the world, so the link to science is seamless.
 
RisingFury said:
I know you're German and all, but I think even you overdosed on beer when you wrote that. :lol:
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No, not at all, actually. I mean it. Behind the many TV philosophers, like I call them, are actually people who really do hard work there. If you think learning to argue is just a matter for mathematics, philosophy is one degree more extreme. Its like cultivated trolling without any fallacy getting tolerated. :lol:

But give me a beer and I will philosophize about it once more. :cheers:
 
Son: "I'm going to major in philosophy in college."
Father: "Well, then you'll be qualified to ponder the mystery of why you're in the unemployment office."

Ah, memories.
 
Traveller said:
Son: "I'm going to major in philosophy in college."
Father: "Well, then you'll be qualified to ponder the mystery of why you're in the unemployment office."

Ah, memories.
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You know what the PhD of philosophy says to the PhD in computer science?

"Do you want ketchup or mayonnaise for your fries?" :cheers:
 
Urwumpe said:
You know what the PhD of philosophy says to the PhD in computer science?

"Do you want ketchup or mayonnaise for your fries?" :cheers:
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Where I went to college they sold T-shirts that said, "I'm a liberal arts major. Would you like fries with that?"

Which is pretty funny as well as true.

But it's also an indication of a problem: the focus of higher education on getting a good job instead of getting a good education. I currently work with engineers who can't spell. Fairly intelligent people for the most part. Learning proper english isn't needed to get a good engineering job. Neither is learning about history or the classics.

Or philosophy.

These people seem kind of boring to me. They seem to be a in a race to live as conventional a life as possible. They in turn view me as eccentric, an engineer who isn't interested in a "normal" life with 2 cars and a 2.5 kids who wastes his time with music and photography and science fiction.

That said, you can't force feed that art stuff to people. Those of us who are interested tend to seek it out ourselves. I certainly have learned more about history and art than I ever would've sitting in a boring, creativity-killing classroom.

But if it's true that universities are churning out scientists who are narrowly focused only on math and technical stuff and don't have a greater sense of wonder or where science fits into the big picture of life, that's a problem.
 
The worse problem I see with the new generation of engineers, after the Bologna process really damaging the German university system, is that the biggest problem of academics entering a job has been made worse. They are faster entering work after a much shorter education as BSc, but they are absolutely clueless about what is expected from them. They often have really bad shortcomings in even the basic social skills, like writing an email or using the phone to solve a problem. Let alone having learned industry standards that are important in their field of science and in use for over 20 years. It takes a lot of time finding a candidate among such job applications, who has the social skills that you can expect him to learn the really important skills for the job in the following months.

That is something, that arts or philosophy won't solve by themselves... but being forced to take a look outside the cage is sure an improvement. Education is more than filling the head with information, education should be about learning to learn.
 
I'm not anywhere near finishing my degree program (not easy to do as full time employee, husband, dad, etc). But I'm only a few classes away from a 2 year degree. My employment won't change in any dramatic way regardless of what sheepskin I might have hanging on the "I love me" wall.

That being said, I regularly read from Dr. Eliot's shelf. "The best acquisition of a cultivated man is a liberal frame of mind or way of thinking; but there must be added to that possession acquaintance with the prodigious store of recorded discoveries..." Dr. Eliot

I suppose I could say that while I'm not smart, I know a lot?
 
Seeing as philosophy and formal logic are the basis for all of modern science and western civilization, I don't understand how anyone can view it so negatively.

Philosophy, as I think about it, is critical thinking and reasoning skills along with a degree of understanding your environment.

In effect, cogito ergo sum.
 
You have to strip out specific words from specific sentences to get something like the author of the article inferred from Tyson.
 
thepenguin said:
Seeing as philosophy and formal logic are the basis for all of modern science and western civilization, I don't understand how anyone can view it so negatively.

Philosophy, as I think about it, is critical thinking and reasoning skills along with a degree of understanding your environment.

In effect, cogito ergo sum.
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Dr. Tyson is referring specifically to unanswerable questions and untestable answers. In one talk, he said: "What is the temperature of the number 7?"
 
RisingFury said:
Dr. Tyson is referring specifically to unanswerable questions and untestable answers. In one talk, he said: "What is the temperature of the number 7?"
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The answer turned out to be quite simple, really: 42
 
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