New Orbiter Beta Released (r.44, Dec 5 2015)

[asbjos]

Please, somebody help me in better understanding this "aperture" thing:
is it FOV?
Is it zoom?

(I can't obviously d'load it now and check it for myself)

Thanks

Scrolling in cockpit -> change FOV
Scrolling outside cockpit -> change FOV
Scrolling while pressing right mouse button outside cockpit -> change camera target distance

 

[martins]

But not anymore in a 1024 x 768 2D panel ? At least, via keymap.cfg ?

Well, it should still control the camera aperture in any 2D panel views (I'll check that), but you are right - it no longer controls the panel magnification. I'll need to find a different shortcut for that.

Please, somebody help me in better understanding this "aperture" thing:
is it FOV?
Is it zoom?

Is there a difference between these two? Unless there is, it's both of these.

 

[fort]

Well, it should still control the camera aperture in any 2D panel views (I'll check that), but you are right - it no longer controls the panel magnification. I'll need to find a different shortcut for that.

Thank you. Anyway there is alternative, and for example in the parameters panel of the launchpad, set the generic mfd size to 8 or upper for example, and switch during the simulation ( F8 ) from 2D panel to generic MFD when the font size is too little for to be easily read - or change the 2D panel size itself - but the direct zoom in the 2D panel in 1024/768 is easier.

( when i reread my message i think that i shoud try someday to learn english )

 

[orb]

Please, somebody help me in better understanding this "aperture" thing:
is it FOV?
Is it zoom?

Well, 'field of view' is an angle of view, 'zoom' can be a ratio between 2 angles of view (e.g. max. and min., the set one and the standard, the new one and the old one). Since aperture is set as an angle and not a ratio, it's rather FOV than zoom.

 

[JMW]

Change log:
This might take some getting used to. Let me know what you think .

For me, it's kinda confusing as we're using right mouse button to control orientation around the focus.
Releasing the wheel inevitably causes some deflection (especially noticeable and a pain in global frame) Maybe arthritis doesn't help :lol:
I like the wheel FoV in internal views. Can this be made to just operate internally....
Or, might be better reversed..... right button+wheel for FoV, wheel only for zoom...?

Thank you Doctor for continuing this great work !! :tiphat:

 

[Urwumpe]

I suggest LCTRL+RSHIFT+LALT+LMB+RMB+WHEEL for FoV and WHEEL for zoom.

 

[Face]

Camera: interface change: mouse wheel now controls aperture (both in cockpit and external view). Radial camera movement in external views now with right-click + mouse wheel.

At first I thought that this might feel awkward in practice, but actually it did not so. The additional click of RMB while wheeling is not too far from the RMB use with mouse-move rotation.

Just my :2cents:

 

[martins]

For me, it's kinda confusing as we're using right mouse button to control orientation around the focus.
Releasing the wheel inevitably causes some deflection (especially noticeable and a pain in global frame) Maybe arthritis doesn't help
I like the wheel FoV in internal views. Can this be made to just operate internally....
Or, might be better reversed..... right button+wheel for FoV, wheel only for zoom...?

Well, the logic around the current arrangement was:

Right mouse button controls camera position:

• left/right (x-axis) = azimuth
• up/down (y-axis) = elevation
• wheel (z-axis) = radial distance

(which I think is what Face is referring to).
But I agree that the right button+wheel combination is a bit cumbersome. I could do something like Ctrl + wheel instead, but this would require both hands, which is also not ideal.

Swapping the controls for aperture and distance also has drawbacks, because it would mean that you need right button+wheel in the cockpit, while the plain wheel is unused.

Any more opinions on mouse functionality preferences?

I suggest LCTRL+RSHIFT+LALT+LMB+RMB+WHEEL for FoV and WHEEL for zoom.

I hear you! Let's also not forget that most users have ten toes which could be used for input purposes but are currently severely underused. How many keyboards and mice does Windows support? :lol:

 

[Urwumpe]

I hear you! Let's also not forget that most users have ten toes which could be used for input purposes but are currently severely underused. How many keyboards and mice does Windows support? :lol:

I suspect it is nearly unlimited except by the 127 USB devices you can adress by a single USB host and the number of USB hosts you can install into a PC... :hmm:

 

[Matias Saibene]

I suggest LCTRL+RSHIFT+LALT+LMB+RMB+WHEEL for FoV and WHEEL for zoom.

 

[fred18]

Swapping the controls for aperture and distance also has drawbacks, because it would mean that you need right button+wheel in the cockpit, while the plain wheel is unused.

Any more opinions on mouse functionality preferences?

I think that the issue is that there are two different preferred options for the two situations.

I just tested it. As long as you know how this works and you get used to it it's ok also this way, but just wheeling to move away is a bit more intuitive in the outside view: some times you move away significantly with a lot of wheel scrolling and it's a bit more direct if you don't have to press the RB as well. Let's imagine a new player that opens orbiter for the first time, first thing he does: wheel in and out, notice that he can move close and away, a lot of wheel in to see the details of the vehicle, a lot of wheel out to see all the rest. It will take a while for him to notice that RB and wheel produce an effect.

(on the zoom in part I have to say that I'm a bit sad that it's not possible to get as close to the vehicle as in previous versions, I used to move in to explore details, to simulate "onboard cameras" etc)

On the opposite, inside the VC it is easier and intuitive to use the wheel to just "zoom in" the controls. As a matter of fact I used to find intuitive the outside view and kept instinctively trying to wheel in while in the inside view...

The optimum would be to have two different ways, if not possible my very personal preference would be to have the controls swapped, so RB+wheel for FOV and just wheel for distance.

Thanks for keep evolving this!

 

[Hlynkacg]

Went searching for the fix I used, but it predated my current backups.... but luckily I had an old backup in an ExtHD with the changes.
So, just open the AConfigurator.rc file and change from:

#include "afxres.h"

to

//#include "afxres.h"
#include "windows.h"
#include "OleDlg.Dlg"

and it should compile (at least it worked for me when I needed).

Thank you,

That solved several of the errors, but the following one still remains...

1>------ Build started: Project: Atlantis, Configuration: Release Win32 ------
1>  Performing Custom Build Tools
1>  'C:\Program' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
1>  operable program or batch file.
1>C:\Program Files (x86)\MSBuild\Microsoft.Cpp\v4.0\Microsoft.CppCommon.targets(151,5): error MSB6006: "cmd.exe" exited with code 255.
========== Build: 0 succeeded, 1 failed, 2 up-to-date, 0 skipped ==========

Problem is that without a line number I don't know where to start. Searching for "C:\Program" turns up nothing except references to "C:\Program Files (x86)" as my root directory for visual studio itself.

 

[orb]

I don't know where to start.

What is the location of your Orbiter directory? The Custom Build Tools step in the Atlantis sample project calls meshc, which has problems with Orbiter being in a path using spaces ($(SDKDir)\utils\meshc.exe command isn't placed inside quotes).

 

[Matias Saibene]

Any more opinions on mouse functionality preferences?

I've also noticed that the speed of zoom using the RB + wheel is greater than using Page Up/Page Down. So it would be useful (in case of mantain the current combination) add SHIFT + PgUp / PgDn for a faster zoom. I think it should be given more priority to Zoom than the FOV, me at least seems somewhat confusing.

Another idea would be:
Use the wheel to control the FOV in the cabin (for quick access to small controls), use the wheel to control zoom on the outside view, and use RB + wheel to control the FOV on the external view.

 

[Hlynkacg]

What is the location of your Orbiter directory?

My orbiter install directory is C:\Program Files\Orbiter\Orbiter2015, but I don't see any reference to meshc in the custom build tools or Atlantis.rc.

 

[orb]

I don't see any reference to meshc

It's surely in Atlantis.vcproj (or Atlantis.vcxproj if you converted the project to new version). I can't check it for a while directly in Visual Studio (but only in raw file) to see why you can't find it in the project settings.

A workaround is to move Orbiter to a path that doesn't use spaces (and update OrbiterDir appropriately). A fix would be updating the project with quotation marks added to the custom build tools step around commands and parameters using full paths.

 

[Face]

I think that the issue is that there are two different preferred options for the two situations.

It looks like this issue can quickly become a classic bike-sheding one, too.

 

[fred18]

It looks like this issue can quickly become a classic bike-sheding one, too.

Well, maybe, but I also think that human Interface is quite important for a simulator.

As far as this issue there is another point: since FOV is maintained when switching from outside view to inside et viceversa, being very easy to change it while inside may generate a bit of annoying inconsistency while switching the views.

Here's what I mean: when i am from outside view at some point I fix the position of the camera and its FOV to a setting I like, then I often switch between inside and outside to both perform actions inside the cockpit and have a look from outside.

If i change FOV in the inside view to focus on switches when I get back outside I'll have to zoom out again to restore my favourite setting. Same in the opposite way.

So my idea of super optimum behaviour is this:

1) Storing and restoring FOV when switching between inside and outside view to maintain consistency.
2) Different key combination: wheel to move in the outside view, wheel to zoom in the inside.

I have no idea if this is feasible or too complicated, it's of course my vision and I hope it will be useful to Dr Schweiger for its work!

Cheers

 

[jedidia]

Use the wheel to control the FOV in the cabin (for quick access to small controls), use the wheel to control zoom on the outside view

I agree there. While the wording is a bit confusing (what the mousewheel controlled so far in external view isn't actually zoom, it's the camera position... as mentioned before, zoom and FOV are pretty much the same thing in real life), I think switching it to FOV will lead to confusion.

While I apreciate the thought of keeping the controls consistent, there is the consideration of what you are most likely wanting to do in any given case. As such, controlling FOV in VC directly by mouswheel is great, because that's what you most likely want to do there: take a closer look at specific areas of the VC, without changing the camera position. But in external view, it is still much more likely that you want to controll the camera position, especially when using the "orbiting" camera with the vessel in the focus (I never so far had the need of changing the FOV when in external view). And when in panel mode, it is still likely that what you need to do most is scaling the panel (I'm not even sure if the FOV does anything when in panel mode...?).

In the end, the functions are closely related. In all cases the wish is to make things larger or smaller, and depending on the context, different means of achieving that make more or less sense. In my opinion it would be more important for the controls to make intuitive sense (i.e. always use the most likely wanted means to achieve the goal depending on context) than absolute consitstency of functionality.

 

[Marg]

Honestly saying, I am not satisfied with this change... I would better use right mouse button + wheel for FOV changes, and just wheel - for distance (and height in ground camera mode). I use wheel a lot more, I do not change FOV so often.