OFMM General Discussions Archive

[dgatsoulis]

Good idea, but first I think we need to think about getting there.

As flytandem has shown, you can get there, departing today (far from a Hoffman transfer) in a DG with 20% fuel. The question is... once you get there, what will you do?

 

[supersonic]

I agree with Artlav, the XR-2 looks like a good shuttle for Mars.

 

[Bj]

once you get there, what will you do?

Gather resources? build scientific outposts?

Isn't Mars mission all about the vessel that would get us there and back?
A vessel like that, once developed, can be a stepping stone for various interplanetary missions.
I'd say it's worth the effort.

Oh I see, your looking to build a realistic tech-vessel that would go to Mars and back. Sorta like a space station with rockets

 

[dgatsoulis]

"Gather resources? build scientific outposts?"

Oh, i see...

[Mars is the next step, but we need a time-table.
Instead of building just a couple of bases on Mars and a Martian space station, how's this for an idea? Terraform Mars.
...Begin the construction of a Martian monitoring system with satellites and a space station to monitor the process...with "local" material...Phobos and Deimos could be exploited for minerals..."]

 

[Urwumpe]

Well, how much new modules do we need? There are a lot of add-ons. Although, i was getting kind of depressed while browsing thru them looking for something to make an interplanetary ship out of.

What would it take to make a vessel to go to Mars?
-Engine and fuel tanks
-Habitable area (lots of space station modules)
-Power system (solar panels or a reactor, first look cooler)
-Auxillary stuff (airlocks, ports, etc)
-Cargo decks (UCGO SDK+some simple meshes)
-Scaffolding and keel (some more meshes)
-Shuttles (available on Earth side a-plenty, something DG-like on Mars side)

Just brainstorming:

Well, first of all, we need a core module to start building with. Lets say we use the ISS as starting point for the construction, then the ideal core module would be the "bridge", launched as nearly empty pressure vessel with a docking port on the front. What must be there is a power distribution system, so power from the ISS can be routed to the rest of the early vessel for the construction process.

Now, the next missions would be early outfitting - the first part of the truss gets installed, together with a SSRMS like robot arm for assisting the future assembly. The next step would be habitats, which would get installed on the first part of the truss, together with power storage (batteries) and ECLSS tanks (O2, N2) inside the truss. The next part would be the main truss, which would get the propellant tanks and the propulsion system eventually... Once the propulsion system arrives, which would in case of nuclear propulsion also supply electrical power, the long spacecraft could be undocked from the ISS (for stability, since it would overload the stabilization system), and the final outfitting take place some true anomaly away from the ISS. Radiators would get installed, Propellant tanks are launched and installed. Next the shuttles for the way to mars would be installed, and the first consumables are loaded.

Finally, the spacecraft would get the Earth-return capsule docked, ideally in a enclosed hangar, and the crew...

If nuclear propulsion is not possible, chemical and launching it as Aldrin Cycler might be a good alternative.

 

[supersonic]

[Mars is the next step, but we need a time-table.
Instead of building just a couple of bases on Mars and a Martian space station, how's this for an idea? Terraform Mars.
...Begin the construction of a Martian monitoring system with satellites and a space station to monitor the process...with "local" material...Phobos and Deimos could be exploited for minerals..."]

This should be something to start as soon as we get to Mars and get a steady base.

 

[Urwumpe]

"Gather resources? build scientific outposts?"

Oh, i see...

[Mars is the next step, but we need a time-table.
Instead of building just a couple of bases on Mars and a Martian space station, how's this for an idea? Terraform Mars.
...Begin the construction of a Martian monitoring system with satellites and a space station to monitor the process...with "local" material...Phobos and Deimos could be exploited for minerals..."]

How long do you want to play? Remember that the average life-expectancy in the Orbiter-Forum is just 75 years (because of the unhealthy lifestyle, like getting quickly in contact with solid rocket motor exhaust).

 

[supersonic]

Hey, it is worth looking into.

 

[Izack]

Okay, so a stack it is. I like this.
Again, I offer my services for its construction (a little less hopefully.)

 

[Bloodworth]

Sigh, just spent the better part of an hour composing a post here and lost it when my connection crapped out just as I hit "post".

At any rate...Wow, by last night it looked like this idea was a misfire, but when i woke up today I find that it's lifted off and is rapidly reaching orbit

As for timeframe:
Personally, I honestly don't believe that a manned mission to mars will occur within the next 50 or even 75 years. Though I DO believe that it Will happen eventually. Think about it, we haven't even been able to get back to the moon in the last 35 years! Therefore, I propose that we set the mission date at 100 years from now. In that timeframe, I believe it would be possible for a lunar staging base (brighton beach) to have actually been built. This would also allow for slightly higher tech than is currently available.

As for vessels:
I like the idea of building our own vessel, but, in the end, how long do we want it to be till we actually LAUNCH the flight to mars? And remember, this is going to have to be an at least SEMI permanant base, therefore we are going to need more than one vessel. Furthermore, said mothership is also going to need to be able to land, and for a couple of reasons. 1) Ferrying all that cargo via small landers (such as the delta glider of XR-2) is going to require more fuel than the mother ship is likely going to carry spare. 2) Said mother ship is also going to be needed as a shelter for the crew at least until the first phase of base construction is completed, there simply isn't enough room on a DGIV for 10 to 16 people. The landers would likely be used for planetary exploration and science expeditions after landing and between crew rotations. Personally I vote for the arrow. If for nothing else, it's probably the coolest vessel in orbiter thus far and deserves to be in on this mission. If the mission goes into actually TERRAFORMING Mars, then i could see building a large (non landable) stack vehicle to transport equipment and supplies for such a large endeavor.

Would It be possible to get a reskin (or set of) done of the arrow specifically for this mission?

Personally, I would LOVE to use Orulex for this project, however, there are several issues with orulex which I think will probably prevent us from using it:
1) No air in bases with orulex on (no permanently breathable areas).
2) Unexplainable death for all ummu crews on the ground and in landed vessels.
3) Unexplainable sudden ejection of all landed vessels into space at high velocity.
4) Orbiting vessels and stations unable to maintain orbit, regardless of orbital altitude.

These are just some ideas and just my 2 cents worth. This is a community project Not to mention that I don't have the skills to fly the interplanetary legs of the mission, but I am willing and able to fly a lander or be ground crew

 

[supersonic]

Great ideas Bloodworth.

 

[Urwumpe]

I think terra-forming is a bit too far off for something that should be fun.

1. We currently can't even terraform our own planet.
2. Even the optimistic plans take hundreds of years, and could fail.

Base building on Mars alone could already mean more than enough missions, how many missions do you think we can fly in a meaningful time? if we can do 50 missions in 2010, it would already be impressive, I doubt we can play more than two missions per week if Mars is the goal.

Don't plan too huge from the beginning, because otherwise the disappointment will come quickly. Also, terraforming would mean dozens of repeating missions, which is also not really big fun. Some variation should exist for the fun of it.

 

[Wolfer]

I think the stack idea would be more interesting than using the Arrow or another big unrealistic spacecraft, because it would mean more missions for assembly in earth orbit and the need for dedicated landers, thus there could be more pilots. But whatever the decision this looks promising and I would like to fly a mission or two if possible. Also, as far as teraforming goes, I think Urwumpe is right.

 

[PhantomCruiser]

Just kind of thinking out loud here... Well typing out loud er, silently...

What about a James Cook mission to establish a base using the HLV modules to establish an initial base. The Cook can then return to Earth and an Arrow can return to Mars with the crew, and subsequent base modules for expansion. A crew return module (Mars-For-Less perhaps) could be available to return a crew to the Arrow if need be.
Be also the GDI mining rig needs to be deployed. There is a refinery in the works, if someone made a smelter/foundery/forge etc, the base may be somewhat sustainable.

An "outpost" in the polar region (with a miner for ice) could be established soon after the initial landing.

I'd be willing to work on a blimp (think KSR's Red Mars) that could be used for recon/survey work.

 

[supersonic]

A blimp seems like a good idea, for survey, like you said, and for monitoring the weather.

 

[Urwumpe]

Would a blimp work in the low density atmosphere of Mars?

 

[Kveldulf]

I love the idea of this. I'll toss my hat in as a pilot on this mission.

When it comes to ideas about what ship to use, I personally vote for the Arrow as well. The stack idea is interesting, but then we'd need a lot of missions before we actually were able to do anything other then construction. Given that, we'd be running missions every other day or so, to get the ship built within a reasonable time-frame, and to keep people interested. If we don't get enough people together to do this, then the same... 5 people (for instance) would be flying, and that may not work with other people's schedules. As for me, I'd probably get burned out on Orbiter before the mission got out of orbit.

 

[Izack]

Would a blimp work in the low density atmosphere of Mars?

Why not? It would naturally have to be enormous. Average surface pressure is 600 pascals as opposed to Earth's 14 690, which presents a few engineering problems, but it is certainly not impossible. Certainly a dirigible would be ludicrous, but something more akin to a weather balloon is totally plausible.
I'd be more concerned with its propulsion than its buoyancy.

 

[PhantomCruiser]

I still have my copy of Red Mars, I'll see if I can glean some more information from it. Of course it'd be guesswork, but I remember the gondola had a crew of 2 (dude/chick and of course they did...)
Propulsion was electric IIRC.
How was the Mars Ares plane to be powered? Rockets IIRC, When I find it I'll try to mimic that somehow. Perhaps something just enough to stay aloft at 500 meters or so, with some kind of RCS type steering.

 

[Izack]

I still have my copy of Red Mars, I'll see if I can glean some more information from it. Of course it'd be guesswork, but I remember the gondola had a crew of 2 (dude/chick and of course they did...)
Propulsion was electric IIRC.
How was the Mars Ares plane to be powered? Rockets IIRC, When I find it I'll try to mimic that somehow. Perhaps something just enough to stay aloft at 500 meters or so, with some kind of RCS type steering.

Hmm....would RCS really be a good form of propulsion for an atmospheric craft, even on Mars? How much heavy hydrazine (or whatever fuel you choose to use) is it going to have to lug around?
Hall thrusters or the like could be used for linear propulsion to some effect, but no matter what, this bird's not going anywhere quickly (not that it has to.)
Excellent idea, though. I think you should definitely go through with it.