OFMM General Discussions Archive

Pablo49 · May 4, 2010

I think we should go the miner route, where we produce fuel cargo.

Izack · May 4, 2010

I agree with Pablo and Ashaman. Producing fuel en route will save space mass without cheating much (unchecking 'limited fuel').
There is plenty of space available to have fuel production modules and keep the special Mars equipment.

Anyone know of a good communications module for a stack? Artlav's right: we're sorely lacking in addons for this type of mission.

And to think...this is only the first stage. Of course, the Arrow should be at least somewhat easier to plan out and send packing. Speaking of which, is it possible to Velcro a couple of boosters to the Arrow's hull for some extra thrust on Mars Ascent?

Dambuster · May 4, 2010

ISV Venture Star, anyone?

Izack · May 4, 2010

Dambuster said:
ISV Venture Star, anyone?

That is...exactly what I was thinking.

On the upside, there probably won't be any blue monkey women where we're going. Or...is that a bad thing? :lol:

Pablo49 · May 5, 2010

Izack said:
I agree with Pablo and Ashaman. Producing fuel en route will save space mass without cheating much (unchecking 'limited fuel').
There is plenty of space available to have fuel production modules and keep the special Mars equipment.

It would be more along the lines of once we get to Mars, bring down equipment to produce fuel from Mars' resources. Then bring them back up to the Stack (we should name the stack btw.

) with DG-IV or XR-2s etc. (Instead of how we would have had the Arrow land on the surface to get fuel. The stack stays in orbit.)

Well, you are already using SSBB, and it has a com module. It's only a small truss like module with dishes and such on it, I'm not sure if you are looking for something different.

Bloodworth · May 5, 2010

I believe we are actually planning on a multi ship mission. I'm pretty sure that arrow will make an appearance at some point.

And no, there won't be any blue monkey women where we're going...they'll be red

Izack · May 5, 2010

This works too. Come to think of it, it makes more sense than magically making fuel en route. As it is, I think some sort of booster stage is in order to push the stack out of Earth's SOI, or perhaps out to the Moon. Head around the Moon once, build up speed and come back past Earth, where the NERVA would kick in and sent it sailing off Marsward. The NERVA alone just doesn't seem to be enough.

As for a name, the first one I'd pick would be MES (Martian Exploration Vehicle) 01 Endeavour, but that's sort of already taken by a Shuttle. Any ideas?

Pablo49 · May 5, 2010

Agreed, at this rate, the stack will be too massive for the Nerva 2. Perhaps we can use one Nerva (with correct amount of tanks) to boost the stack to the moon, then ditch it Saturn IVB style and then do the moon-earth slingshot, and use the Stack's remaining Nerva to boost to Mars. A little complicated, but shouldn't be too hard. Have you tried to get the stack you are working on to eject towards Mars?

Wolfer · May 5, 2010

For communications there is a dish in [nomedia="http://www.orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=2857"]Various Space Station Modules[/nomedia]. Also, I think it would be wiser to place the propellant tanks between the NERVA-2 and the hab modules to provide radiation shielding. There's also the problem of thermal control, i'm not sure if those tiny radiators on the engine are big enough for a gaz-core NTR while it's running.

I like the booster idea, maybe we can do something along these lines?

By the way, what's the fuel the engine uses? If it's hydrogen we need to switch it to methane or some other stuff if we want to be able to refuel the stack with martian materials.

Pablo49 · May 5, 2010

That booster idea is interesting, but then we have to find a way to use all three engines (or how ever many we might use) at the same time to get an accurate burn.

Bloodworth · May 5, 2010

Izack, Your stack idea looks good so far with 1 exception. With the xr-2's (or DG's for that matter) docked in that manner I'm afraid that once the stack is under thrust it would stress the docking collar to the point of failure. While I don't think that that particular effect is modeled in orbiter, I still think that they should be docked parallel to the stack instead of perpendicular to it.

Izack · May 5, 2010

The departure plan you showed is an interesting idea, Wolfer. Sounds good. As for the NERVA2, my computer has been acting up this evening, and doesn't want to run Orbiter.

If any of you guys want to test it, here's the scenario:

Code:

BEGIN_DESC

END_DESC

BEGIN_ENVIRONMENT
  System Sol
  Date MJD 51982.1247234492
END_ENVIRONMENT

BEGIN_FOCUS
  Ship Service2
END_FOCUS

BEGIN_CAMERA
  TARGET Service2
  MODE Extern
  POS 17.09 105.16 9.96
  TRACKMODE GlobalFrame
  FOV 50.00
END_CAMERA


BEGIN_SHIPS
ISS:ProjectAlpha_ISS
  STATUS Orbiting Earth
  RPOS -2371273.77 -5936006.98 2134810.71
  RVEL -7058.973 3001.525 520.647
  AROT 30.00 -0.00 50.00
  IDS 0:588 100 1:586 100 2:584 100 3:582 100 4:580 100
  NAVFREQ 0 0
  XPDR 466
END
Mir
  STATUS Orbiting Earth
  RPOS 5814523.91 -199199.54 -3256887.18
  RVEL 3782.881 411.812 6733.052
  AROT 0.00 -45.00 90.00
  IDS 0:540 100 1:542 100 2:544 100
  XPDR 482
END
Luna-OB1:Wheel
  STATUS Orbiting Moon
  RPOS -2233185.87 146955.54 -44.07
  RVEL -97.198 -1476.903 -0.002
  AROT 0.00 0.00 56.07
  VROT 0.00 0.00 10.00
  IDS 0:560 100 1:564 100
  XPDR 494
END
GL-01:DeltaGlider
  STATUS Landed Earth
  POS -82.4988276 23.0005396
  HEADING 174.13
  PRPLEVEL 0:1.000 1:1.000
  NAVFREQ 0 0 0 0
  XPDR 0
  GEAR 1 1.0000
END
GL-02:DeltaGlider
  STATUS Landed Mars
  BASE Olympus:3
  POS -135.4300000 12.7366196
  HEADING 0.00
  PRPLEVEL 0:1.000 1:1.000
  NAVFREQ 0 0 0 0
  XPDR 0
  GEAR 1 1.0000
END
SH-01:ShuttleA
  STATUS Landed Moon
  BASE Brighton Beach:1
  POS -33.4375002 41.1184067
  HEADING 0.00
  PRPLEVEL 0:1.000 1:1.000
  NAVFREQ 0 0
  XPDR 0
  PODANGLE 0.0000 0.0000
  DOCKSTATE 0 0.0000
  AIRLOCK 0 0.0000
  GEAR 0 0.0000
  PAYLOAD MASS 0.0 0
END
Node1:BT102
  STATUS Orbiting Earth
  RPOS 112915.21 15.21 7007197.02
  RVEL -7540.718 0.006 121.518
  AROT 0.00 -23.20 28.07
  DOCKINFO 0:4,Truss2 1:4,Truss3 2:4,Truss4 3:4,Truss5 4:0,Hab1 5:5,Truss1
  NAVFREQ 0 0
END
Truss1:BT101
  STATUS Orbiting Earth
  RPOS 112912.78 15.21 7007191.35
  RVEL -7540.718 0.006 121.518
  AROT -180.00 23.20 -28.07
  DOCKINFO 0:0,Tank1 1:0,Tank2 2:0,Tank3 3:0,Tank4 4:0,Service1 5:5,Node1
  NAVFREQ 0 0
END
Service1:Tranzit
  STATUS Orbiting Earth
  RPOS 112907.24 15.21 7007178.42
  RVEL -7540.718 0.006 121.518
  AROT 0.00 -23.20 118.07
  PRPLEVEL 0:1.000
  DOCKINFO 0:4,Truss1
  NAVFREQ 0 0 0 0
  XPDR 0
  DEPLOY 1 1.0000
  TUGSTATE 2
  SPROTATE 0.909
  DEPCOUNTER -0.021
END
Tank1:BTank101
  STATUS Orbiting Earth
  RPOS 112915.48 13.64 7007190.20
  RVEL -7540.718 0.006 121.518
  AROT -180.00 23.20 151.93
  PRPLEVEL 0:1.000
  DOCKINFO 0:0,Truss1
  NAVFREQ 0 0
END
Tank2:BTank101
  STATUS Orbiting Earth
  RPOS 112910.08 16.78 7007192.51
  RVEL -7540.718 0.006 121.518
  AROT 0.00 -23.20 28.07
  PRPLEVEL 0:1.000
  DOCKINFO 0:1,Truss1
  NAVFREQ 0 0
END
Tank3:BTank101
  STATUS Orbiting Earth
  RPOS 112911.34 12.27 7007191.97
  RVEL -7540.718 0.006 121.518
  AROT 180.00 23.20 61.93
  PRPLEVEL 0:1.000
  DOCKINFO 0:2,Truss1
  NAVFREQ 0 0
END
Tank4:BTank101
  STATUS Orbiting Earth
  RPOS 112914.22 18.15 7007190.74
  RVEL -7540.718 0.006 121.518
  AROT 0.00 -23.20 118.07
  PRPLEVEL 0:1.000
  DOCKINFO 0:3,Truss1
  NAVFREQ 0 0
END
Truss2:BT101
  STATUS Orbiting Earth
  RPOS 112920.21 12.31 7007194.88
  RVEL -7540.718 0.006 121.518
  AROT 53.55 54.20 47.67
  DOCKINFO 4:0,Node1
  NAVFREQ 0 0
END
Truss3:BT101
  STATUS Orbiting Earth
  RPOS 112910.21 18.11 7007199.16
  RVEL -7540.718 0.006 121.518
  AROT -126.45 -54.20 132.33
  DOCKINFO 4:1,Node1
  NAVFREQ 0 0
END
Hab1:BM230
  STATUS Orbiting Earth
  RPOS 112917.64 15.21 7007202.69
  RVEL -7540.718 0.006 121.518
  AROT -180.00 23.20 -28.07
  DOCKINFO 0:4,Node1 1:4,Truss6
  NAVFREQ 0 0
END
Truss4:BT101
  STATUS Orbiting Earth
  RPOS 112917.88 20.65 7007195.88
  RVEL -7540.718 0.006 121.518
  AROT -78.14 25.63 -64.09
  DOCKINFO 4:2,Node1
  NAVFREQ 0 0
END
Truss5:BT101
  STATUS Orbiting Earth
  RPOS 112912.55 9.77 7007198.16
  RVEL -7540.718 0.006 121.518
  AROT 101.86 -25.63 -25.91
  DOCKINFO 4:3,Node1
  NAVFREQ 0 0
END
Truss6:BT101
  STATUS Orbiting Earth
  RPOS 112921.64 15.21 7007212.02
  RVEL -7540.718 0.006 121.518
  AROT -180.00 23.20 151.93
  DOCKINFO 4:1,Hab1 5:4,Truss7
  NAVFREQ 0 0
END
Truss7:BT101
  STATUS Orbiting Earth
  RPOS 112925.64 15.21 7007221.35
  RVEL -7540.718 0.006 121.518
  AROT -180.00 23.20 -28.07
  DOCKINFO 4:5,Truss6 5:4,Truss8
  NAVFREQ 0 0
END
Truss8:BT101
  STATUS Orbiting Earth
  RPOS 112929.64 15.21 7007230.68
  RVEL -7540.718 0.006 121.518
  AROT -180.00 23.20 151.93
  DOCKINFO 4:5,Truss7 5:4,Truss9
  NAVFREQ 0 0
END
Truss9:BT101
  STATUS Orbiting Earth
  RPOS 112933.64 15.21 7007240.01
  RVEL -7540.718 0.006 121.518
  AROT -180.00 23.20 -28.07
  DOCKINFO 4:5,Truss8 5:1,Service2
  NAVFREQ 0 0
END
Service2:SSM
  STATUS Orbiting Earth
  RPOS 112937.98 15.21 7007250.15
  RVEL -7540.718 0.006 121.518
  AROT 0.00 -23.20 -61.93
  PRPLEVEL 0:1.000
  DOCKINFO 0:0,Node2 1:5,Truss9
  NAVFREQ 0 0
  DISH STATUS 1 1.000000
  SOLAR STATUS 1 1.000000
END
Node2:BN201
  STATUS Orbiting Earth
  RPOS 112940.54 15.21 7007256.12
  RVEL -7540.718 0.006 121.518
  AROT 101.86 -25.63 -115.91
  DOCKINFO 0:0,Service2 1:0,Hab4 2:2,Hab2 3:2,Hab3
  NAVFREQ 0 0
END
Hab2:BM230
  STATUS Orbiting Earth
  RPOS 112936.90 17.32 7007257.68
  RVEL -7540.718 0.006 121.518
  AROT 180.00 23.20 61.93
  DOCKINFO 2:2,Node2
  NAVFREQ 0 0
END
Hab3:BM230
  STATUS Orbiting Earth
  RPOS 112944.18 13.10 7007254.56
  RVEL -7540.718 0.006 121.518
  AROT -180.00 23.20 -118.07
  DOCKINFO 2:3,Node2
  NAVFREQ 0 0
END
Hab4:BM101
  STATUS Orbiting Earth
  RPOS 112943.43 15.21 7007262.85
  RVEL -7540.718 0.006 121.518
  AROT -180.00 23.20 -28.07
  DOCKINFO 0:1,Node2 1:0,Node3
  NAVFREQ 0 0
END
Node3:BN201
  STATUS Orbiting Earth
  RPOS 112946.31 15.21 7007269.58
  RVEL -7540.718 0.006 121.518
  AROT 101.86 -25.63 -115.91
  DOCKINFO 0:1,Hab4 1:0,Hab5 4:0,Tank5 5:0,Tank6
  NAVFREQ 0 0
END
Hab5:BM211
  STATUS Orbiting Earth
  RPOS 112949.20 15.21 7007276.32
  RVEL -7540.718 0.006 121.518
  AROT -180.00 23.20 -28.07
  DOCKINFO 0:1,Node3 1:0,Observation1
  NAVFREQ 0 0
END
Tank5:BTank101
  STATUS Orbiting Earth
  RPOS 112948.26 19.17 7007268.75
  RVEL -7540.718 0.006 121.518
  AROT -180.00 23.20 -118.07
  PRPLEVEL 0:1.000
  DOCKINFO 0:4,Node3
  NAVFREQ 0 0
END
Tank6:BTank101
  STATUS Orbiting Earth
  RPOS 112944.37 11.25 7007270.42
  RVEL -7540.718 0.006 121.518
  AROT 0.00 -23.20 -61.93
  PRPLEVEL 0:1.000
  DOCKINFO 0:5,Node3
  NAVFREQ 0 0
END
Observation1:BCP01
  STATUS Orbiting Earth
  RPOS 112951.66 15.21 7007282.05
  RVEL -7540.718 0.006 121.518
  AROT 0.00 -23.20 118.07
  DOCKINFO 0:1,Hab5
  NAVFREQ 0 0
END
Arm1:URMS
  STATUS Orbiting Earth
  RPOS 112917.64 15.21 7007202.69
  RVEL -7540.718 0.006 121.518
  AROT -180.00 23.20 -28.07
  ATTACHED 0:0,Hab1
  NAVFREQ 0 0
  MAIN_STATUS 2
  JOYSTICK_STATUS 1
  JOYSTICK_CFG 1
  PLATFORM_MESH 0
  CORE_NAME Hab1
  CORE_PARAMS 0.0000 0.0000 -10.0000 0.0000 0.0000 10.0000 0.50000
  ORIENTATION -0.00000 -1.00000 -0.00000 0.00000 0.00000 1.00000
  CAMERA_STATUS 0
  SCALE_FACTOR 2.5000
  LIN_PARAMS 0 10.0000 0.0000
  ROOT_ROT 2 179.7481 0.0000
  SHOULDER_ROT 2 87.4183 0.0000
  ELBOW_ROT 2 60.8612 0.0000
  WRIST_ROT_H 2 61.7052 0.0000
  WRIST_ROT_V 0 104.0000 0.0000
  WRIST_ROT_R 0 0.0000 0.0000
  CARGO_PARAMS -0.06 -4.41 -3.97
  FLASH_OFF 1
  IK_PARAMS 1 0.00000 0.00000 0.000
END
END_SHIPS

Also, if anyone could tell me how exactly to insert an object using a text editor instead of the in-sim scenario editor, it would save me a bit of shame and aggravation. :embarrassed:

PS: Known flaws:
- Insufficient radiator surfaces
- Potentially insufficient RCS
- Total lack of communications equipment (due to my lack of scenario-editing prowess...apologies)
- Lack of NERVA2 (ditto)

These seem to be pretty easy to fix. Once that's ironed out, perhaps it will make it to second reading?

---------- Post added at 01:24 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:16 AM ----------

Bloodworth said:
Izack, Your stack idea looks good so far with 1 exception. With the xr-2's (or DG's for that matter) docked in that manner I'm afraid that once the stack is under thrust it would stress the docking collar to the point of failure. While I don't think that that particular effect is modeled in orbiter, I still think that they should be docked parallel to the stack instead of perpendicular to it.

That should be fairly easy to fix. At first I had them docked to the port and starboard hab modules instead of the core block, but they were misaligned and overlapped the stack. It's probably just a matter of rotating the two habs 90 degrees so the Ravens' will be parallel with the stack. I'll get right on it. Would you prefer them pointing toward the front or the back?

Wolfer · May 5, 2010

Pablo49 said:
That booster idea is interesting, but then we have to find a way to use all three engines (or how ever many we might use) at the same time to get an accurate burn.

I have already done such a thing with vessel stack. It's fairly easy.

Pablo49 · May 5, 2010

Haha, I first suggested vessel stack and then didn`t think about it then, how silly.

With that in mind, I like the idea of using the boosters has desccribed in the picture before.

Bloodworth · May 5, 2010

Izack said:
Would you prefer them pointing toward the front or the back?

I don't know that it matters unless you are going to use them as extra engines. I'd just hate to see the engines light up, hear a loud crack, look back and see my shuttles falling behind at an ever increasing rate...

Izack · May 5, 2010

I don't think they are practical as extra engines. I agree they have to be flush with the ship or else the acceleration from the NTE will tear them off, and I don't want to see that happen any more than you do.
Now then, all that's left now is to get a report on the NERVA2, and then I guess it's on to what we're taking with us.

And I almost totally forgot about that second mission (the Arrow)
Inflatable UCGO bases galore, or something altogether more sinister? :stirpot:

Bj · May 5, 2010

Urwumpe said:
At least a few of the inflatables from UCGO... never a bad choice.

Otherwise we modules that contain functions like:

Key ;
Red = Full develop(mesh/texture)
Green = Textures only
orange =mixed

For ground;

Green houses -UCGO cargo
Med Bay -UCGO inflatable, just texture difference
Power supply, power storage -Umm besides needing a battery, UCGO solar panels
Habitat -UCGO inflatable
Tool storage -Like a shed? Don't think it would be inflatable then, probably need its own makeover
Rover garage -Same as above just bigger
Fuel storage -Huge drums would be good, like oil refinery style.
In-situ fuel plant - GUI Miner
Water plant-Could be the same drums as the fuel storage, just different texture
Communication-Big antenna
Base command/Administration-UCGO inflatable command
Meteorological office-:hmm:
Workshop-:hmm:
Galley-:hmm:
Recreation-:hmm:
UMMU respawning :lol: -I think it should be on Earth but that's just me :thumbup:
Arnold Schwarzenegger for the terraforming project - With the sound "look, sa reacter is melting sa ice". :rofl:

For MSS;

Green houses -*
Med Bay -*
Power supply, power storage -*
Habitat -*
Tool storage -*
Rover garage -inside Arrow
Fuel storage -[nomedia="http://www.orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=2650"]simple tank payload 2.5[/nomedia]
In-situ fuel plant - GUI Miner(packed?)
Water plant-maybe a big cylinder that contains all the necessary parts to be deployed. (*?)
Communication-Antenna?
Base command/Administration-inside ship*
Meteorological office-*
Workshop-*
Galley-*
Recreation-*

Izack said:
I vote 'Project Sagittarius' in lieu of NASA's habit for naming things after constellations (Gemini, Orion, Constellation for crying out loud...)

Well at least the constellations NASA picks are easy to pronounce

Should get a list of candidate constellations going,

Izack said:
I've included a very rough sketch using a tiny laptop finger pad thing.

:rofl: Urwumpe...

Ashaman42 said:
For moving some of the cargo from martian orbit to the surface would a simple heatshield/capsule that could hold a number of ucgo cargos (be it 4 or 8 or whatever) work?

I'm thinking drop the hardy stuff and then either start the base wherever it lands or fetch the stuff via rover to where we want the base to be.

I think it would be more efficient if the heat shield/capsule thing would have its own small eject-able engine. It might be less efficient to try to set the main-ship on its way to reentry just to line up the payload, and burn back up to orbit. This way, it would push itself into its own trajectory. Plus, this would make the landing precision much better. Preferably, landing of the cargo would be within 1km of the base/target, so that we don't have to worry about really long drives to and from landing site. (otherwise drivers of cargo packing trucks wont have long drives. :thumbup:

Also on that note, would it be nice to carry more than 2x cargo at once? Can we get a UCGO style electric semi going?

Also, if anyone could tell me how exactly to insert an object using a text editor instead of the in-sim scenario editor, it would save me a bit of shame and aggravation

Simplest way is to use copy-past :cheers:

Bloodworth · May 5, 2010

Item # 14680 out of 20000

I would still like to see mission specific skins for all ships involved in this endeavor if at all possible.

Bj · May 5, 2010

For ground;
...
For MSS

Now the question becomes how to get everything from the (*) list to the deployed pieces other than restarting the scenario every time. Best thought that comes to mind is to use the list of vessels and convert them to UCGO packed vessels so that when they are dropped on the ground the UMMU can deploy them.

Izack · May 5, 2010

Bloodworth said:
Item # 14680 out of 20000

I would still like to see mission specific skins for all ships involved in this endeavor if at all possible.

I'm not sure it's practical to reskin every module in a stack, but I would love to see special insignias or skins on the XRs and the Arrow.

@Bj (long post isn't worth regurgitating)

Sounds like a plan! I may or may not be able to do some texture work for you. Last time I did texturing was for Il-2 way back when it was new. Modules/cargoes don't sound too hard, though. I'll look into it tomorrow when I have the brainpower.

This mission's really starting to shape up! :cheers:

Orbiter 2024 has been released!

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