OFMM General Discussions Archive

[Kevon Daye]

Just a brainstorm I had a few seconds ago: Instead of a ring type gravity wheel, have a dumbbell type wheel (like on the arrow). Attached to the ends of two of the dumbbells would be an elliptical ring surrounding the ship, able to spin with the wheel. Attached to this would be an inflatable radiation shield large enough to cover the entire stack(think of an ummucone but bigger),able to traverse the ring , allowing the ship to maneuver freely underneath.This would come in handy if by some extreme stroke of bad luck, solar activity increased during a critical maneuver.

Again, this is just a brainstorm I had, it took me about ten seconds to think up.

 

[Bj]

Sorry missed this;

I still can build a landing site with AR81's Surfacebase wizard.

Yes, that would be nice to have higher res textures of the landing points.



Next on the agenda, ground exploration/scientific stuff ext ext.

So far just by planning this mission, I learned a lot about the potential dangers of deep space flight, and how many 'unknowns' there are like safe exposures levels to radiation, 'safe' long term environments for levels of G force...

Anything else I am missing out on? :hmm:

I think it might be not-very-entertaining to be on the way to Mars, stop and 'pretend' to get bombarded from some radiation or something. (since the same might happen on Mars) can we get a program going where it will every say orbiter hour get a radiation intensity measurement & prediction and output it to a txt file or something. Then the hab module will include a interface similar to the UMMU where it can (when docked to the radiation shield chamber, if its not built in) move the UMMU to the chamber to keep them 'safe' during the radiation shower.

Of course I could be dreaming now, if this gets too complex. Thoughts?

Not sure how to simulate a G testing module, though I guess we could just pack it along and pretend we used it. How in depth are we getting with our 'science' here?

Anymore science equipment should we bring along? Should we follow Apollo's foot steps, by leaving and setting up a ALSEP type package?

 

[supersonic]

I think it might be not-very-entertaining to be on the way to Mars, stop and 'pretend' to get bombarded from some radiation or something. (since the same might happen on Mars) can we get a program going where it will every say orbiter hour get a radiation intensity measurement & prediction and output it to a txt file or something. Then the hab module will include a interface similar to the UMMU where it can (when docked to the radiation shield chamber, if its not built in) move the UMMU to the chamber to keep them 'safe' during the radiation shower.

Of course I could be dreaming now, if this gets too complex. Thoughts?

Sounds great, until someone goes off for a while doesn't move the UMMU's to the safe place and the mission is suddenly over.

Anymore science equipment should we bring along? Should we follow Apollo's foot steps, by leaving and setting up a ALSEP type package

I think an ALSEP type package would be good for this mission.

 

[Izack]

I think it might be not-very-entertaining to be on the way to Mars, stop and 'pretend' to get bombarded from some radiation or something. (since the same might happen on Mars) can we get a program going where it will every say orbiter hour get a radiation intensity measurement & prediction and output it to a txt file or something. Then the hab module will include a interface similar to the UMMU where it can (when docked to the radiation shield chamber, if its not built in) move the UMMU to the chamber to keep them 'safe' during the radiation shower.

Of course I could be dreaming now, if this gets too complex. Thoughts?

If someone wants to build it, then sure. It doesn't really add anything to be done en route, since it seems automatic. It will generate data to go over at the end of the flight, though, which could be interesting, depending on what actually gets done with that data (which isn't really my forte, so I'll stay out of it.)
I had an idea a while ago, but I'm so tired right now I'll wait until morning...
:goodnight:

 

[Bj]

If someone wants to build it, then sure. It doesn't really add anything to be done en route, since it seems automatic. It will generate data to go over at the end of the flight, though, which could be interesting, depending on what actually gets done with that data (which isn't really my forte, so I'll stay out of it.)

I guess there wouldn't be anything useful from the actual data. If the hab module was covered first in radiation tiles then with heat tiles (reentrys) then there wouldn't be any point in 'evacuating' to another module for safety reasons.

Which brings me to point 1;

The hab module (for effective use of resources) will both be a hab module in space, and on Mars. So it will have to be able to carry itself to Mars surface surviving reentry. ( Like Urwumpe's post a while back, Apollo style, though with heat shield and/or para-shoot of some sort) will also have to come back to Earth for another reentry. Because of Earths higher gravity, a powered descent stage is unlikely, so a splashdown is best.

Which brings me to the point, the hab module is going to make a powered landing on Mars, and reenter to Earth. Unlikly that it will be able to carry the food for astronautics for the duration of the stay and be able to land safely after reentry on Earth with so much cargo weight ( of whatever rock we bring back) so I think separate reentry are needed. Perhaps use our own HCV (modify requirements of vessel)?

That also brings me to point 2;

Food. -Or are we going that far in details?

Trying to find some stats on average consumption (in weight) I found about 400 kg/person/year. So rounding up that puts us at 5,000 kg for 5 people. So this is interesting, if we have the area for all this food, might it be better for disposable modules, or should it be built into the station?

Also, O2. IIRC Dans UMMU can have the O2 consumption integrated with the ship, so at least it will provide us some more realism. Also would this be a drop tank thing as well? No use packing around useless weight...

 

[Izack]

It sounds like this hab module is going to need to be a superhero to be able to do all this.
If an XR or DG vessel or two are coming along for the ride, can't they be used for Earth entry and Mars departure? Between the two of them they should have a sufficient amount of passenger space.

Speaking of that, how large is the crew? Just the number of people in the OFMM group, or are there 'NPC's?

 

[Bj]

It sounds like this hab module is going to need to be a superhero to be able to do all this.
If an XR or DG vessel or two are coming along for the ride, can't they be used for Earth entry and Mars departure? Between the two of them they should have a sufficient amount of passenger space.

Speaking of that, how large is the crew? Just the number of people in the OFMM group, or are there 'NPC's?

Superhero? It would be the same concept as Apollo. CM, LM... only the LM gets a heat shield and the LM is the hab module...

It doesn't need a SM mostly because the entire station can be thought of as a SM.


So far SSTO ships don't exist yet. --I thought we scratched those off? :shrug:

As for crew size, it would depend on the amount of O2 (and food?) we can bring along. Preferably the max allowed though.

 

[Izack]

So far SSTO ships don't exist yet. --I thought we scratched those off? :shrug:

I must have missed the memo. :uhh:

I suppose 'superhero' is an exaggeration. I was thinking of a hab only as an ISS-type white cylinder, with a heat shield and engines bolted on (or something; who knows?). If it has all of these things integrated, is it not more of a self-contained vessel than a module?

 

[Urwumpe]

I must have missed the memo. :uhh:

I suppose 'superhero' is an exaggeration. I was thinking of a hab only as an ISS-type white cylinder, with a heat shield and engines bolted on (or something; who knows?). If it has all of these things integrated, is it not more of a self-contained vessel than a module?

I would say that we have still not selected a hab design, I just made a proposal for one, that would be closer to the "pseudo-realistic" mission desires stated often in the thread. Please feel explicitly encouraged to make your own thoughts about a design and submit them, the more different mission designs, the better.

In this proposal, it is pretty much a strengthened ISS module without any engines at all, but with integrated ECLSS, communications and GNC. It wouldn't even have RCS of its own, this would all come from an integrated space-tug/propulsion module, the "Skycrane", which does the transport of the module from Space to Mars surface. This way, we can't contaminate the landing site with RCS residuals.

---------- Post added at 11:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:29 AM ----------

A point which I think requires some redesign: The cargo boxes in the Wiki are currently showing many elements, including rare noble gases or rare metals, which we will hardly find on Mars in large numbers. Maybe we should abstract rarer cargos into categories which group many of them. At the same time, we have no cargo boxes reserved for any useful tools or consumables, alloys or molecules. For example, we could use spare CO2 filter beds for regular maintenance. We could need tins with selected minerals for preparing green houses. We have not a single box with medical supplies in the list.

we would need such stuff more than a detailed chemistry.

If somebody had too much geology lectures in his life, he could think about how to get Mars geology into such a fun program.

Getting a lab into a hab VC that looks almost like CSI:Mars is no big deal, realism should be our least concern there, fun to play and story telling would be a better focus.

 

[Mojave]

Sorry missed this;


Yes, that would be nice to have higher res textures of the landing points.



Next on the agenda, ground exploration/scientific stuff ext ext.

So far just by planning this mission, I learned a lot about the potential dangers of deep space flight, and how many 'unknowns' there are like safe exposures levels to radiation, 'safe' long term environments for levels of G force...

Anything else I am missing out on? :hmm:

I think it might be not-very-entertaining to be on the way to Mars, stop and 'pretend' to get bombarded from some radiation or something. (since the same might happen on Mars) can we get a program going where it will every say orbiter hour get a radiation intensity measurement & prediction and output it to a txt file or something. Then the hab module will include a interface similar to the UMMU where it can (when docked to the radiation shield chamber, if its not built in) move the UMMU to the chamber to keep them 'safe' during the radiation shower.

Of course I could be dreaming now, if this gets too complex. Thoughts?

Not sure how to simulate a G testing module, though I guess we could just pack it along and pretend we used it. How in depth are we getting with our 'science' here?

Anymore science equipment should we bring along? Should we follow Apollo's foot steps, by leaving and setting up a ALSEP type package?

I don't do surfice tiles yet though, I don't know how, I would need pointers. I also use Orulex, and can put the base in a crater.

 

[Bj]

I would say that we have still not selected a hab design,

check, just proposals so far nothing 'concrete'

In this proposal, it is pretty much a strengthened ISS module without any engines at all, but with integrated ECLSS, communications and GNC. It wouldn't even have RCS of its own, this would all come from an integrated space-tug/propulsion module, the "Skycrane", which does the transport of the module from Space to Mars surface. This way, we can't contaminate the landing site with RCS residuals.

Sounds cool, I like this version. Question though, would the skycrane be used as a lift on earth as well? Or splashdown for Earth landings? Effective use of the Mars to orbit vessel. I suppose we can use tether MFD or something. (Does it look like a rope or...?)

A point which I think requires some redesign: The cargo boxes in the Wiki are currently showing many elements, including rare noble gases or rare metals, which we will hardly find on Mars in large numbers. Maybe we should abstract rarer cargos into categories which group many of them. At the same time, we have no cargo boxes reserved for any useful tools or consumables, alloys or molecules. For example, we could use spare CO2 filter beds for regular maintenance. We could need tins with selected minerals for preparing green houses. We have not a single box with medical supplies in the list.

Well yes, the program will only allow you to have a few select elements on Mars, but I was hoping the large number would make it rather hard to guess what you will find. Makes it more of a surprise you see.

For the goals of this project it might be pointless for making so many cargos, dedicated to this project but it might be actually a nice separate addon anyway for all these cargoes.

So you know what, Ill make it my own thing, I'll just make a standard texture for the cargo, then name and texture change for each. Should be easy enough. Then this project can use whatever they wish from it.

we would need such stuff more than a detailed chemistry.

Yes I am getting to what we need on ground operations and whatever, slow going though given my schedule.

Getting a lab into a hab VC that looks almost like CSI:Mars is no big deal, realism should be our least concern there, fun to play and story telling would be a better focus.

If you want its fine but don't expect any VC outta me :thumbup:

 

[Izack]

A point which I think requires some redesign: The cargo boxes in the Wiki are currently showing many elements, including rare noble gases or rare metals, which we will hardly find on Mars in large numbers. Maybe we should abstract rarer cargos into categories which group many of them. At the same time, we have no cargo boxes reserved for any useful tools or consumables, alloys or molecules. For example, we could use spare CO2 filter beds for regular maintenance. We could need tins with selected minerals for preparing green houses. We have not a single box with medical supplies in the list.

That's not a problem. I went ahead and made a basic template (though it's not quite done yet...I'm in the middle of a move so progress is slow), and I just need to fill in whatever labels are needed. Whenever the list is finalised I'll give it a shot.

 

[Urwumpe]

Sounds cool, I like this version. Question though, would the skycrane be used as a lift on earth as well? Or splashdown for Earth landings? Effective use of the Mars to orbit vessel. I suppose we can use tether MFD or something. (Does it look like a rope or...?)

Only as Mars Shuttle, and for heavy payloads even just for landing. I think with an attachment, we would be better off, no need to use tether MFD for something that simple. The design could maybe also be used as orbital space tug, since it does some berthing/unberthing operations for its duty.

If you want its fine but don't expect any VC outta me :thumbup:

I want it all.

 

[Bj]

I want it all.

You get what you pay for :lol:

Alright pushing on,

To make a habitable area, we need;

• Shelter
  • Hab module
  • Additional Living space
    • Inflatables?
    • underground?
  • Cargo Storage areas
  • ECLSS
• Food/Water
  • Storage area
  • Creation / refinement / purification (part of ECLSS)
  • ...or bring along or combination of both
• Heat
  • Electric or reuse of waste heat from RTG
• Communication
  • High-gain/low gain antennas
  • Relay station (ground - LMO - Earth) (I doubt we can continue working off an aging satellite for long)
• Power generation
  • big RTG or single SNAP-10A
    • Depending on power requirements, multiple 'stations' for additional power.
• Equipment for construction/moving cargo ext
  • Forklift?
  • Electric truck?
  • Bulldozer? (or are we going to 'fake it?' I vote so)
• Work Tools (container anyway)
  • wrenches, hammers, shovels, ext ext can be put in a deploy able UCGO cargo, which could deploy into a work bench & tool shelves ext.
• Medical
  • Med cargo
  • possible surgery equipment? (medical module, orbit only, the rest can be done in a building/inflatable bay with med tool cargo)
• Rocket Fuel production/storage
  • Above ground drums or cylinders (like propane tanks)
  • underground fuel containers (gas station style)

Any more? Am I forgetting any part of the basic necessity of life (on Mars anyway)

This leaves us with a list of;

• Deployable cargo
  • Tools/workbenches (many different boxes, as you are limited to UCGO size box.)
  • Fuel tanks
  • Greenhouses
  • Antennas
  • Power -RTG or SNAP-10A. (I vote SNAP)
  • Hab modules
  • Water bins/storage purification
• Static (for looks) cargo
  • Medical cargo
  • Medical tools
  • Medical computers/instruments (whatever you call em)
  • Tool containers
  • Drums/containers for fuel
• UCGO vehicle
  • Forklift
  • Truck?

Some of these cannot use the UCGO boxes, because they will not fit. We will have to devise our own way of transporting the larger items.

I think something like a forklift would be required because you cannot really expect a person to lift a crate of rocks that weighs like 3,000 kg on Earth, or 1,000 kg on Mars however a method of moving pre-built equipment is necessary. I don't think a forklift will fit into a UCGO cargo box.

Could be its own module/vessel where in the scenario it will point to the module that needs to be created when this vessel destroys(opens- removes fairing) itself?



This is going to make a fair number of separate addons for Orbiter...

 

[Alexw95]

I'm interested I can go to mars a back with arrow or dg havnt tried with xr but probly could I can do all the other stuff too

---------- Post added at 04:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:55 AM ----------

I'm interested I can go to mars a back with arrow or dg havnt tried with xr but probly could I can do all the other stuff too

Not sure how many pilots u have but I can fly for sure I am working on learning to make modules so I can hel you with that when I figure it ou

 

[Izack]

I have a small question.
Can the mission-specific UCGO boxes be weathered a bit with Martian red soil? They look too shiny and generic right now...
Pretty simple; just a layer of red rusty stuff over the reflective bit (in ear grating layman's terms )

 

[fireballs619]

After reading all 31 pages of posts, I've decided I want in on this. I'd probably be best as ground crew or piloting landers, but I'll help however I can. Just let me know what I should do.

 

[Pablo49]

I've been quite busy this last week or so, hence my disappearance from the internet lately. SO I just want to check in so you know I'm still actively involved with this.

I did basically finish the greenhouses a few days. After a few tweaks and more final textures I'll up a shot of them. Basically the same area as Urwumpe's original design. Though they are circular.

 

[Urwumpe]

I did basically finish the greenhouses a few days. After a few tweaks and more final textures I'll up a shot of them. Basically the same area as Urwumpe's original design. Though they are circular.

Practically no problem for me.

would just be important that we can install lights there, since even bright day on Mars is a pretty dim thing.

 

[Ashaman42]

I've been quite busy this last week or so, hence my disappearance from the internet lately. SO I just want to check in so you know I'm still actively involved with this.

I did basically finish the greenhouses a few days. After a few tweaks and more final textures I'll up a shot of them. Basically the same area as Urwumpe's original design. Though they are circular.

Are you coding the greenhouses to produce O2/food or are they a static mesh?

Because if you wanted me to code them to produce a Ucgo cargo like my GDI Miner/Ore mill I would be happy to help.